The British and bikes

[davidw]

I have often wondered what it is in the British psyche that makes them anti-bicycle. Perhaps it had its origins in the earliest days when the rich young men - the only ones who could afford them - went hurtling around on their Oridinaries seemingly terrifying old ladies and animals. It is an attitude peculiar to GB.
Sweden I found to be a cycling heaven. Every town had its own dedicated, properly built and maintained cycle paths, they even had their own traffic lights. Once when we came to a pedestrianised area in a major city there was no provision for cyclists. You simply rode amongst the pedestrians, and no one turned a hair! As a properly brought up Brit I found it quite hard to cope with!! So simple. The rule seems to be that pedestrians and motor traffic are kept apart, and in this context cyclists seem to be pedestrians on wheels.
Out of town the dual carriageways were no problem, plenty of room for sensible overtaking by motor traffic. When we got on to single roads you could hear the big trucks coming down through the gears waiting for a suitable moment to come past. As the cab came alongside a thank you wave from me would be answered with a 'no problem' flick of the tail lights once he was safely past.
Now not every country was like this but even in countries where allegedly the motorists drive like lunatics we found that that they did not pass us dangerously close. In fact you soon know that when a car does, and especially if he has a caravan behind, that when he is past it will be a GB reg that you see.
Reading this forum I see that the pavement neurosis is still alive and well as is the problem of drivers who, even if you make eye contact, still do not see you.
In the years when I used to commute into work my morning ride was an idyllic trip along the sea wall from Hoylake to Wallasey, obviously no traffic of any kind, although there was (inevitably?) a 'No Cycling' notice. Then on to the Mersey Ferry to Liverpool. A bike ride and a boat ride. What a way to go to work. But in the evenings after the ferry I came back through Birkenhead along normal traffic laden roads. As they crawled along nose to tailbetween sets of lights some drivers would get upset as I, on my bicyle, went past them as they sat in their expensive 0 to 60 in 5 seconds, top speed of 145 mph machines. So you get used to the little ploys. As we come up to another set of lights they move over towards the kerb to try and stop you gettingpast, (although there is always the kerb to nip on to and so past jus the same) or, how about the one where he switches on the screen washers just as you come alongside...it's true. My favourite response: slap hard on the roof of the car with the flat of the hand. No damage done but what a shock that loud bang gives to the driver inside. A case for 'Sorry mate I didn't see you'?

[flecc]

There's an associated thing, looking down on cyclists. This is common in third world and developing countries, and it's an attitude now brought here by immigration from those areas. Cycling is seen as for the poor, and in some Asian cultures, that makes cyclists a sort of lower caste. For example, I'm friendly with a nearby man from the Indian sub continent and we often greet each other and chat when we meet while walking, but when I'm on a bike, he deliberately avoids eye contact and won't speak!

The reason I raise this is that I wonder if there is any connection with our Empire background. Cycling has been around for 150 years or so, while the British Empire only finally folded less than 60 years ago, and the connection has been maintained via the Commonwealth. Therefore I wonder if it's an attitude with origins in it being brought here by the colonial administration, since they were often the middle and upper classes, the same people to adopt the earliest bicycles in this country and the first to abandon using them as their popularity spread.

Just a thought, but it's a small step from regarding a group as socially lower to active dislike of them.
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Personally I don't think the British are anti bicycle. In my experience if you ride a bicycle in this country you are treated pretty well. Okay so some motorists don't give cyclists enough room, but much of the time this is just through ignorance or stupidity and not anti cycling.

Also I think cyclists should take some responsibility, in many cases they act as bad if not worse than drivers of other vehicles. Many also seem to have a chip on their shoulder, believing everyone else is against the poor innocent cyclist.

Martin

[flecc]

Originally Posted by mk1

Personally I don't think the British are anti bicycle. In my experience if you ride a bicycle in this country you are treated pretty well. Okay so some motorists don't give cyclists enough room, but much of the time this is just through ignorance or stupidity and not anti cycling.

Also I think cyclists should take some responsibility, in many cases they act as bad if not worse than drivers of other vehicles. Many also seem to have a chip on their shoulder, believing everyone else is against the poor innocent cyclist.

Martin

I find a real mix of opposite attitudes in my area amongst drivers, many very helpful to cyclists in fact, but another group very obviously aggressively anti, and of course the average lot in the middle.

I certainly agree about the aggressive attitude of some cyclists, not many of them round here, but the few like that are real nasty bits of work, abusing drivers, pedestrians and anyone else they think is in the way. I dislike them the most because of the bad name they give us.
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[simonbarnett]

It's a minority of cyclists in my experience who get drivers agitated. Running red lights dangerously, ignoring one-way streets or cutting traffic gaps so fine you have to slam the brakes on to avoid knocking them off- plus a measure of self-righteous greener than you aggression. Couriers being the biggest offenders but not the worst- at least they 're experienced.

I commute daily by car through London. I have no ill will to most cyclists and don't see much of the antagonism from car drivers that some cyclists seem to experience.

[flecc]

Originally Posted by simonbarnett

I commute daily by car through London. I have no ill will to most cyclists and don't see much of the antagonism from car drivers that some cyclists seem to experience.

I never remember seeing it in my commuting days into London either, but see many of the things davidw complains of in my suburban area. The deliberate swerving left when a cyclist is spotted in order to block the cycle lane is very common, particularly in the areas where long traffic queues develop. It seems they just resent someone able to go to the front in their own lane. General abuse from a car or van driver or passenger passing by being yelled out at a cyclist who is just cycling along the edge of the road and not in the way of anyone also happens very often, and not just from young drivers.

I even suffered an extreme case of malicious driving from a London bus driver. He unaccountably pulled in behind and followed me some distance at 15 mph, then when approaching a bus stop with someone waiting he suddenly overtook and swerved into the bus stop front of me, stopping quickly at an angle, forcing me to brake hard and swerve right round to the other side of the road to get past. Leaving the bus stop, he quickly caught up, followed, and then repeated the performance at the next bus stop. When he was clearly intending it at the third stop, I watched him in the mirror and swerved out in time to completely block him from overtaking, and that was the last of the behaviour on that trip. That was as clear a case of anti-cycling aggression as I've ever come across.

But on the other hand, there's many drivers who really go out of their way to help cyclists, much more so than I remember from the commuting days, so it seems suburbia may bring out greater extremes of behaviour among those who live and work there.

Perhaps a touch of Royston Vasey.
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[HarryB]

Originally Posted by flecc

I even suffered an extreme case of malicious driving from a London bus driver. He unaccountably pulled in behind and followed me some distance at 15 mph, then when approaching a bus stop with someone waiting he suddenly overtook and swerved into the bus stop front of me, stopping quickly at an angle, forcing me to brake hard and swerve right round to the other side of the road to get past. Leaving the bus stop, he quickly caught up, followed, and then repeated the performance at the next bus stop. When he was clearly intending it at the third stop, I watched him in the mirror and swerved out in time to completely block him from overtaking, and that was the last of the behaviour on that trip. That was as clear a case of anti-cycling aggression as I've ever come across.


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Yes this sort of thing does happen with buses and in this case it does seem malicious. Once when this happened to me, his timing wasn't brilliant and I refused to stop ending up at the bus stop with him along side. It proved very difficult to load passengers with a cyclist in the way remonstrating with the driver. I think the bendy buses in London are the worst as the drivers seem to have no idea how long their vehicle is. I have been cut up by a few times and am not afraid to remind them of the man who was dragged 9 minutes under the wheels of a bendy bus before dying - they should remember this every time they sit behind the wheel. As long as you remain calm and cool I see no problem in talking to the drivers about their driving and in the end you do have the right to complain to the bus company about them.

[MazB]

I also don't feel that car users are the problem, you may get 1 or 2 that annoy you but thats not bad going seeing how many cars are actually on the road.

I find a lot cyclists and pedestrians more a pain and rude. Especially if I use a cycle path thats adjoining a walkway, one time actually being pushed off the cycle path into the road by some big six foot beefy docker and another being sworn at and told to get on the road. Yes both times I picked myself up and asked them if the picture of a bike on the ground wasnt a bit of a giveaway!!

On the road I just think cyclists need to be more aware and on junctions like Flecc said in his previous post just take the time to anticipate which car is going to try and dart out, you can usually spot them
I did nearly have an accident not too long ago, when I come off the cycle track I cross a dual carriageway - my right eye always looks forward and my left eye has a habit of keeping track of the traffic on the left I could see a certain car was not going to stop at the lights so I slammed my breaks on as did he he missed me by millimeters
Do I love my left eye...sure do as this would have definitely been a diffo outcome.

Lycra clad brigade - why the hell do they go through red lights? at like 30mph do they think they are riding a tank? Even if they hit me on my little UM55 they are going to come off worse..total madness!

Riding on pavements when there is no cycle track - if I need to do this I always give pedestrians the right of way, if I need to stop to let them past I stop its not their problem i'm on the pavement.
I can understand them getting annoyed at people zooming past them just like when we get passed by a car who's too close.

So I think its just a bit of consideration on all parties, we and they always remember the bad experiences and the nutters.

Right thats my rant and I think i've covered many posts

Maz

[sabretache]

Fascinating thread.

As I hinted in my intro post, I have spent more hours on horseback than I care to count, much of it thankfully over open country, but a lot on both rural and urban roads. Apart from the London commuting/bendy buses bits, substitute 'horse' for 'bike' and most of the comments here would be equally valid - especially the class-connotated ones. Prejudice has some very strange and extreme manifestations. So, since you cannot do much about it, maybe it's best to remain constantly aware of just how irrational some people can be, and be ready to cope optimally with those extremes without putting yourself (or anyone) else in danger.

I think I may make quite a good cyclist actually:-))

Originally Posted by flecc

There's an associated thing, looking down on cyclists. This is common in third world and developing countries, and it's an attitude now brought here by immigration from those areas. Cycling is seen as for the poor, and in some Asian cultures, that makes cyclists a sort of lower caste.
.

I wonder if these Asian cultures will think the same way in a few years time when billions of obese people are trying to drive these large fancy cars they all aspire to, on congested roads.
Maybe they will look back at these times and think the humble bicycle was not such a bad machine after all .

Martin