Bike Maintenance

[flecc]

Those cheap jetwashes aren't very powerful John. It's the much dearer ones from the specialist jetwash manufacturers that are the problem, they can strip paint down to metal instantly and even break glass. However, I can't see your Twist, used on the road, ever needing anything other than a light swabbing with a cloth or sponge and lukewarm water with a drop of washing up liquid.

Their finish is excellent, and after being treated like that for nearly four years, only a few days ago someone asking about it thought I'd just bought it new.

Those mountain bikers are probably making the mistake of letting the mud dry hard on their bikes, always best washed off when fresh.

[Flying Kiwi]

Originally Posted by flecc

I use a tub of Halfords Cycle Grease, lithium based with Teflon, white until it sees the chain when it turns black immediately! I apply it thickly with a toothbrush, not my one though. Had it ages and seems to last for ever. (The grease, not the toothbrush)

I'd be weary about using ordinary cycle grease because it's not thin enough to get right inside the chain links where the lubrication is most needed. Has anyone tried this "Hot melt" type lube on bike chains: Putoline - detail page When it's heated (by putting the tin on a stove) it becomes liquid and can flow into required nooks and crannies before solidifying in place when it cools. It's intended for motorbike chains but I cant see why it shouldn't work well on my Giant Twist Comfort chain.

[flecc]

Yes heat method does work on bike chains, but now often shouldn't be used on motorbike chains, since some use neoprene X section seals built into the chain to retain the internal lubricant. Heating can destroy or harden the neoprene.

A suitable grease on a hub gear chain is fine if used from new since it tends to seal in the new lube, but it has to be used thickly so that as it hardens and flakes, it carries dirt off with it. Four years and 6000+ miles on my Twist chain and sprockets, still in good condition, is witness to that.

[flecc]

Further to the above, dissolving grease into chains has been done since the 1930s at least, and probably before that.

The technique with used chain is to wash it thoroughly with immersion in paraffin, changing it once to ensure all grit and dirt is removed, then the chain hung to drain and dry. Afterwards, place the chain in a baking tray or similar and add a can of general purpose greas and gently heat it in a domestic oven until the grease is fully melted. Then allow to cool a little, and then hang the chain to drain the surplus. There's no particular need for a specialist product like chain wax, although it does the job, since grease is also very effective.

As the Scottoiler people found though, even water is an effective lubricant on bike chain. It's not lack of lubrication that kills chains, it's road dust etc combining with whatever liquid is on the chain and forming effective grinding paste. Fully enclosed chaincases or oilbaths are best to stop that, but a thick grease coating will substitute to some extent. That's no good on derailleurs of course, they're a fairly hopeless case anyway where chain care is concerned.

[Flying Kiwi]

Originally Posted by flecc

Yes heat method does work on bike chains, but now often shouldn't be used on motorbike chains, since some use neoprene X section seals built into the chain to retain the internal lubricant. Heating can destroy or harden the neoprene.

I used a proprietary hot grease chain lube on my motorcycle chain many years ago and it worked fine. A big advantage was that the wheel and surrounding area remained cleaner than if I'd used some sticky chain oil. I agree about not using hot melt chain lube with sealed chains (commonly called "O-Ring" chains) for the reasons mentioned. The product webpage specifically mentions its only for standard chains.

[Flying Kiwi]

Originally Posted by flecc

The technique with used chain is to wash it thoroughly with immersion in paraffin, changing it once to ensure all grit and dirt is removed, then the chain hung to drain and dry.

Wouldn't you know it I picked up the paraffin/kero just the other day with this in mind and was going to use my ultrasonic cleaner after that process to get right into the nooks and crannies but alas my ultrasonic cleaner has died. I'll therefore do the whole job in the new year (when my replacement chain and repaired cleaner have arrived). I'm buying the chain to enable easier refitment of the "in use" chain so I dont have to take the whole cover off to re-thread it around the sprockets. I figure one day when it eventually does wear out then I'll have a spare ready and waiting.

Afterwards, place the chain in a baking tray or similar and add a can of general purpose greas and gently heat it in a domestic oven until the grease is fully melted.

I dont want to risk the possibility of the wrong grease breaking down under the heat. Heat can cause seperation of the oil from the soap part of some greases so I figure a specialist product is the safe option. Another benifit of the specialist product that I remember from my motorcycle days 20 years ago was that its not as sticky on the surface as ordinary grease so would tend not to retain dirt so much.

It's not lack of lubrication that kills chains, it's road dust etc combining with whatever liquid is on the chain and forming effective grinding paste.

Wouldn't that also include the fine metal particles that come off inside the chain links (even when lubricated with original lubricant)? If so, then I imagine my proposed thorough clean and relube of the original chain, the spare chain and proposed fully enclosed ST chaincase should see out the life of the bike. It's a pity the fully enclosed chaincase wasn't an option for Twists other than the Comfort ST.

[flecc]

Originally Posted by Flying Kiwi

Wouldn't that also include the fine metal particles that come off inside the chain links (even when lubricated with original lubricant)?

I've never thought this mattered and I'd question whether anything coming off was abrasive. My reason for saying this was the Sunbeam oilbath chaincase bikes I used to work on back in the 1950s which had been in service since the 1920s and 30s, often ridden daily in those non car owning days. They were running on the original chain and sprockets and they could live almost indefinitely. If metal particulates were a problem, they'd have suffered too.

Grinding products are almost invariably silicates, and they form a high proportion of road dust, hence my belief they're the real enemy. As you say, chaincases are best, but without one grease is quite effective in keeping it at bay. Oil doesn't convince me, since the fact that it can get right inside the chain means it's a great way of carrying road dust into there as well.

It's a pity that O rings and the newer X section rings cause too much frictional drag for bikes, since they work so well on motorbikes. I only ever surface greased the O ring chain on my CB500R and that showed no wear problems.

[Beeping-Sleauty]

good advice,

Originally Posted by flecc

Further to the above, dissolving grease into chains has been done since the 1930s at least, and probably before that.

The technique with used chain is to wash it thoroughly with immersion in paraffin, changing it once to ensure all grit and dirt is removed, then the chain hung to drain and dry. Afterwards, place the chain in a baking tray or similar and add a can of general purpose greas and gently heat it in a domestic oven until the grease is fully melted. Then allow to cool a little, and then hang the chain to drain the surplus. There's no particular need for a specialist product like chain wax, although it does the job, since grease is also very effective.

As the Scottoiler people found though, even water is an effective lubricant on bike chain. It's not lack of lubrication that kills chains, it's road dust etc combining with whatever liquid is on the chain and forming effective grinding paste. Fully enclosed chaincases or oilbaths are best to stop that, but a thick grease coating will substitute to some extent. That's no good on derailleurs of course, they're a fairly hopeless case anyway where chain care is concerned.

for the last twenty years i have used candlewax, first i remove the chain, then leave it overnight in white spirit, this dissolve all the old wax and any grease & tar, give it a good going over with an old fine hair copper suede brush, rinse it in fresh white spirit, then i almost boil it in candle wax until no more bubbles are coming off the chain, remove the chain and hang it whilst still hot to let the excess wax run off, the chain goes completely stiff, i find this helps putting the chain back on,

because the wax isn't 'sticky' virtually no grit from the road attaches to the chain, this lessens the amount of grind on the teeth and i get very little metal in the residue of the white spirit, also it makes the chain feel really smooth and the treatment lasts for about six months, i rotate two chains on each bike, never had to replace chains or cranks, derailleurs are another story.

beeps

[flecc]

Really everything above is good advice, there have always been as many opinions on the details of chain maintenance as there are bike owners!

Ultimately this means that everything outside total enclosure with oilbath or flow lubrication included is less than completely successful, every method trying to make the best out of a fundamentally bad situation.

A very large number of experienced cyclists just don't bother any more, apart from maybe a quick squirt of WD40 once in a blue moon to keep rust off. They just let the chain and sprockets wear out and then replace them. In truth they probably do less work in those occasional events than those who do regular complicated maintenance routines.

[Flying Kiwi]

Originally Posted by flecc

I've never thought this mattered and I'd question whether anything coming off was abrasive. My reason for saying this was the Sunbeam oilbath chaincase bikes I used to work on back in the 1950s which had been in service since the 1920s and 30s, often ridden daily in those non car owning days. They were running on the original chain and sprockets and they could live almost indefinitely. If metal particulates were a problem, they'd have suffered too.

The difference is that in the close confines of the chain internals, with the original grease trapped inside by a thick layer of added grease, the particles generated as a result of wear cant escape. In an oilbath arrangement they can still flow out and sit in the sump/bottom of the chaincase (or attach to a sump magnet if this is incorporated in the design). The chaincase scenario is less likely to have a grinding paste situation develop within the chain links. Although silicates tend to be harder and more abrasive than many metals, metal partricles from wear will still act to accellerate wear if trapped between moving surfaces.

And then in a seperate post

Originally Posted by Beeping-Sleauty

for the last twenty years i have used candlewax

It seems others have tried cycle chain lubrication with candle wax also felixwong.com » Waxed Bicycle Chains Even though you seem happy with the results, I cant help wondering how much more effective a proprietary hot melt chain lube would be, given that it's especially designed for lubricating rather than burning and it's also got a relatively non-tacky surface.