A First- I am the only member on the forum .. weird!

[Marcus_from_sweden]

Originally Posted by flecc

Sorry to disagree John, but my first paragraph isn't a personal view but fact. From the first e-bikes the intention was to add power to assist a cyclist, and most national laws are in line with that. So are manufacturer's designs, and no manufacturer differs from that. As we know, in Europe, pedalling is compulsory to get power. The fact that many bikes are able to propel one much of the time doesn't alter that.

In Sweden you have to use the pedals to be allowed to you the electric power. If you do use the electric power without using the pedals, the bike is suddenly a moped according to the law But not a single cop seems to understand that, at least that's the case in my town. I've driven past traffic cops as they were monitoring the speed of car drivers. One cop just stared at me, like he didn't belive his eyes when I came driving towards him without using the pedals. He could have stopped me, but he didn't. So until the cops get the information strait regarding e-bikes, these bikes serve as a good alternative to mopeds.

I bought my Powabyke to use it as a moped. That way I don't have to pay any traffic insurance, i don't have to use a bulky helmet, and it's cheaper to run. And the fact that it doesn't contribute to global warming, well I just see that as a bonus

[flecc]

The same as in all of the EU Marcus, except Britain for the moment where we still have a national law in force as well. In fact I quite often ride legally for a while without pedalling since my main e-bike is powerful enough to carry my 70 kilos up 12% hills without pedalling, and will even start from a standstill on them without pedalling.

But it can't climb any hill met and no e-bike can, most much weaker than mine, and that's why I stress that e-bikes should not be misrepresented when they are sold. They are never motor vehicles in law in most countries, and as you observed where you are, when ridden as one they are automatically classified as motor vehicles and so are no longer e-bikes.
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[Erik]

Tjenare Marcus!

Could you tell us some more about the Swedish moped law?

In Denmark a moped requries a license if youre between 16 and 18, a third party insurance (liability), and from this year, a special license plate.

The maximum speed on level ground is 30 km/h

The tax on insurance is 230 DKK/year the total cost aound DKK 750 upwards ca. €100.

The speed restriction has to hard to circumvent, usually by hardened bushings in the inlet, hardened pins blocking fitment of larger driving sprockets, and welded bolts on the rear wheel sprocket.

If you get stopped by the police, all modified parts are confiscated, from the third offence upwards the whole moped.

I don't know which parts they would confiscate on a derestricted E-moped in Denmark, to play it safe I guess everything but the frame.

[Marcus_from_sweden]

Originally Posted by Erik

Tjenare Marcus!

Could you tell us some more about the Swedish moped law?

In Denmark a moped requries a license if youre between 16 and 18, a third party insurance (liability), and from this year, a special license plate.

The maximum speed on level ground is 30 km/h

The tax on insurance is 230 DKK/year the total cost aound DKK 750 upwards ca. €100.

The speed restriction has to hard to circumvent, usually by hardened bushings in the inlet, hardened pins blocking fitment of larger driving sprockets, and welded bolts on the rear wheel sprocket.

If you get stopped by the police, all modified parts are confiscated, from the third offence upwards the whole moped.

I don't know which parts they would confiscate on a derestricted E-moped in Denmark, to play it safe I guess everything but the frame.

Well, we have to types of mopeds in Sweden. Class 2 mopeds have a top speed of 25 km/h, and can be driven by anyone that is 15 years or older. Older mopeds that can reach a top speed of 30 km/h, also fits in to this category. Class 2 mopeds doesn't need to carry a license plate. These mopeds must be driven on bicycle paths when available, otherwise they can be drvien on the roads.

Class 1 mopeds have a top speed of 45 km/h, the driver must be at least 15 years old and must pass a simplified driving test. These mopeds must carry a license plate, that looks just like a motorcycle license plate. They can only be driven on roads, not on bycycle paths.

No matter wich type of moped you drive, you must ware a helmet and have traffic insurance (liability). The cost of traffic insurance for class 1 mopeds are 1500-2000 kr per year depending on insurance company, drivers age, and where you live.

[bersh]

Flecc, I did not buy my Quando as a mo-ped. I bought it fully intending to use the battery to provide constant resistance, so I could level out the hills and keep my abused feet a little longer. The bike wasn't sold to me as either a stand alone or an assist. I simply was not informed of how much difficulty I would have because of the battery's limitations, with going up those hills while peddling full out.

Also, I am convinced that because of the lack of good written material, I did not know how to break in the battery. I have no way of assessing if the battery is working normally and its life span appropriate for the number of hours I have used it and the way I have used it.

A sophisticated, walkman sized, bike mounted measuring device to answer those questions would be of infinite usefulness. Flecc, you have nothing much to do other than reply to bounders like me, so I shall expect a fully functioning device soon. Cheers and cheerios...Bersh

[flecc]

I have never regarded you as a bounder Bersh.

I accept that you have had the same battery Li-ion trouble as many of us, but those in areas who haven't had to stress the battery with such steep hills have had much longer effective battery lives. When I and others in hilly areas first started having trouble with Li-ions at six months old and posted about it, many members in flatter areas were baffled by what we were saying, their experience being so much better. This again highlights the limitations of e-bikes, which should never be minimised.

These bikes and batteries had been test ridden extensively in the China, and eZee's CEO personally tests and tours on his bikes regularly and has just completed another 1000 km of the Silk Route, something which he is doing in stages as time allows. But there's a cultural difference out there. It's been observed by him and by other Chinese that they don't understand our obsession with riding up hills, not regarding bikes of any sort as suitable.

I must say in support of that, in countless photos and many videos of e-bikes in China I can never remember seeing one of a Chinese person riding up a hill. I've seen photos of them pushing bikes on the flat and even up slopes, but most material shows them rolling along flat teritory in a leisurely way at around 8 to 12 mph, and of course that doesn't stress the motors and batteries in the way we do.

Once again this highlights the way these are designed only to assist, and that was the point of my argument in this thread, that customers should never be advised otherwise.

In general with customer service, I believe the aim should be that a purchaser finds their product to be a bit better than they expected, and never the other way round.

In forums like this, I think that should also be the aim of advice given.

P.S. I have much, much more to do than reply in this forum. I've ridden over 1500 miles in the last nine weeks testing for a manufacturer for example, and I also have emails via my two bike websites to attend to. In addition, I sometimes carry out certain repairs in emergency situations.
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[keithhazel]

P.S. I have much, much more to do than reply in this forum. I've ridden over 1500 miles in the last nine weeks testing for a manufacturer for example, and I also have emails via my two bike websites to attend to. In addition, I sometimes carry out certain repairs in emergency situations.
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yer yer, but apart from that you have all the afternoons just to answer e-mails...

[flecc]

Originally Posted by keithhazel

yer yer, but apart from that you have all the afternoons just to answer e-mails...

No, the rides are generally in both morning and afternoon, and I also have a life to live outside of e-bikes. I still get mails that have to be answered from a previous forum that I worked on for some years as well as those from my two websites, and of course there are a very large numbers of PMs from many members in this forum to be answered, as you well know Keith.

And as this is post number 5890 in this forum in a little over a year, I think that illustrates that I never have time to sit around. 1.30 am and still at it.
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[keithhazel]

large numbers of PMs from many members in this forum to be answered, as you well know Keith.
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i totally know Flecc, and bright enough to know you know i was just teasing,

[flecc]

Originally Posted by keithhazel

large numbers of PMs from many members in this forum to be answered, as you well know Keith.
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i totally know Flecc, and bright enough to know you know i was just teasing,

Of course, my answer being for those who might have thought otherwise.

2.37 am and still at it.
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