Road Safety...arrghhh

[moon]

What is best?
To jump red lights and stay out of traffics way plus piss off car drivers?
or
Wait for the green light and get cut up by car drivers as well as being forced off your bike at times.

This morning I decided on the later and was nearly killed when a car nearly drove into me.

I also saw a fellow cyclist under the wheels of a TNT courier van near Blackfriars bridge at 10am this morning.

((

It was quite a shocking day...

I think car drivers should be banned from the road.

[Caph]

I wait in line with traffic at lights taking up the whole lane. I'm not annoying drivers by overtaking/undertaking them and I stay in control of the whole lane pulling back over to the left after I've got through the lights.

[flecc]

I do as Caph does when appropriate, but on the traffic lights I'm thoroughly familiar with, I take off at near the end of the red phase after the traffic in the cross direction has stopped and at the end of any pedestrian phase.

That extra second or two gives me a head start to get into a safe position before the grand prix start, enabling the car drivers to settle after jockeying for position before reaching me.
.

[Danny-K]

Originally Posted by Caph

I wait in line with traffic at lights taking up the whole lane. I'm not annoying drivers by overtaking/undertaking them and I stay in control of the whole lane pulling back over to the left after I've got through the lights.

Yep! Claim your entitlement; park up in the centre of your lane - you are a road-going traffic vehicle. If you park up snug into the left side there's danger you could be crushed to death by (myopic) drivers turning left after the lights turn green - straight over you. However a once secret government report, (now in the public domain), appears to support the first suggestion offered by Moon and add to Flecc's suggestion of taking advantage of local knowledge, when it concluded that due to their closer adherence to traffic-light laws, female riders in London were being killed in greater numbers than ever. (86% of all female cyclists deaths in London were as a result of being crushed to death by lorries)
- Lorry drivers, your favourite feral species Mandy!

Those (100% male), cyclists who ignored red lights and rode through - unbelievably had a lower fatality rate - although that's something I abhor in it's entirety.

And a quote from the CTC:
"Adam Coffman, an official at the Cyclists’ Touring Club, said: “Women cyclists tend to ride more slowly and are less comfortable doing things that feel risky.
So, instead of positioning themselves out wide in the road where they can more easily see and be seen, they are more inclined to hug the kerb, a way of cycling that may feel safer but is in fact more risky.”

Anyway, judge for yourself, here's a link to the 'secret' report -

Women cyclists ‘risk death’ by obeying traffic lights - Times Online

[moon]

Thanks for that Danny K

edited to add that, I think that cyclists need their own light signal in order to give them some some distance from other road users.


seeing the cyclist under the van today is still upsetting me..
cycling really shouldn't be this dangerous...

[moon]

this makes interesting reading
RoSPA : Road Safety : Advice : Cycling : Cycling Accidents - Facts and Figures

'Around 70% of the cyclists killed on the road have major head injuries and over half of cyclists injured have head injuries.'

[frank9755]

Without wishing to be confrontational, I have to say I find articles like that of little or no value. I believe it is much more useful to put cycling accidents in context; how frequently they occur, how risky cycling is compared to other things that people do and, indeed, how risky not cycling is compared to cycling.

A few facts that I have come across recently which I did find thought provoking:

• The rate of cycling accidents is coming down.
  
• For adult cyclists, the most frequent cause of accidents is when a motorist makes a left turn without seeing a cyclist, who may be overtaking on the inside or riding too far into the gutter.
  
• Cyclists are many (I forget the multiple) times more likely to live longer than die younger as a result of cycling.
  
• More lives would potentially be saved if helmets were made compulsory for car drivers and passengers, and pedestrians than for cyclists.

Nothing in life is without risk but we mustn't be overwhelmed by the risks or we wouldn't do anything - which is the most dangerous result of all!

[peckerman]

[quote=moon;36353]What is best?
To jump red lights and stay out of traffics way plus piss off car drivers?
or
Wait for the green light and get cut up by car drivers as well as being forced off your bike at times.

This morning I decided on the later and was nearly killed when a car nearly drove into me.

I also saw a fellow cyclist under the wheels of a TNT courier van near Blackfriars bridge at 10am this morning.

((

It was quite a shocking day...


Well I personally just jump the reds, as I am far too good to get hit by a mere car. I also have bat-like senses that enable me to see 360 degrees of traffic in real time. This coupled with my one hundred years riding experience and 3 billion miles without so much as a dog-poop on my tire means that I am right, and you should all listen to me and do exactly as I do.

[JohnInStockie]

I always try to go to the front and hog the lane until I cross the lights, but dont run the lights, I find that generally you get more time and respect from the cars if you do this IMHO. Anyone who runs reds is taking their life in their hands, breaking the law, and giving a bad name to us all (how can you argue over a car not following the highway code if you dont!)

I recall also reading somewhere that most fatalities on the road were deemed to be the cyclists fault, i.e. they were not following the highway code.

Live longer, take over the lane, but dont risk your life.

John

[frank9755]

Originally Posted by JohnInStockie

I always try to go to the front and hog the lane until I cross the lights, but dont run the lights, I find that generally you get more time and respect from the cars if you do this IMHO. Anyone who runs reds is taking their life in their hands, breaking the law, and giving a bad name to us all (how can you argue over a car not following the highway code if you dont!)

I recall also reading somewhere that most fatalities on the road were deemed to be the cyclists fault, i.e. they were not following the highway code.

Live longer, take over the lane, but dont risk your life.

John

I agree with much of that, John; it is always comforting to occupy the moral high ground. However, you jumping a red light does not give a car an excuse for knocking you off through dangerous or careless driving, if fact it doesn't lessen the offence that they have committed (in the same way that you are not less guilty for jumping a red light becuase they have been speeding).

I would describe you as occupying your lane, not hogging it!

Information that I read recently, and I can't remember where, is that in accidents involving motorists and cyclists, the cyclist was found to be at fault in about one third of cases and the motorist twice as often.