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[rsscott]

John, you could always contact a Torq owner in your area for a demo. Everyone is different and while one person might find a certain gradient difficult, it may be easy for another.

Try as many bikes as you can, you may be surprised!

[rsscott]

Flecc,

how interchangeable are the eZee motors? Could you fit a Sprint/Cadence motor to the Torq along with a replacement front chainwheel ?

[flecc]

It would almost certainly mean the controller and wiring would need to be changed as well, but that's academic as the Sprint motor would only help a bit anyway. It would still be a bit too high geared due to the 700c rim necessary to match the brake position, overall diameter with tyre at 28", against the Sprint front wheel, which is roughly 25.5" overall, 9% higher geared. That said, the Torq is hugely overgeared. Taking the Quando with that motor giving 15 mph as standard gearing, the Torq is 40% overgeared, hence it's high speed on slopes but failure on real hills.

I've had a look at the contours in John's area on Googlemap, and there are certainly some impressive hills around Stockport, though the land flattens out as it heads towards Sale where he commutes to. So the option of a Torq depends on whether he can avoid hills over 1 in 10, if he can a Torq could be ok, but if he has to ride up 1 in 8 or more, especially long stretches, he'd find it exhausting. I live up a 1 in 8 and being fit am just as happy to ride it on an unassisted bike as with the Torq, since once speed drops below 12 mph the Torq's power vanishes very rapidly due to that gearing. A to B said as much, and have confirmed to me more recently that the production Torq's 58" low gear is much too high for hills in their opinion.

While it would certainly be best for John to try a torq first, for obvious reasons there are very few torq owners living where there's steep hills, so judgement might be difficult.

[JohnInStockie]

I must admit, I am not averse to the Torq, in fact it was the one I was going to go for until I read the problems on the hills, which to be honest, is the one of the main reasons for getting an electric bike.

As an overweight (16st) and unfit 38 yr old living in Hazel Grove (on the route between Stockport and Buxton), it would frankly be impossible for me to cycle up some of the hills in my immediate vicinity (even my 14 yr gets of and walks up some of them). There is one 200m from my front door and on my route which is a 400m 1 in 8.

But an electric bike that didnt stop completely, well then that means you arent having a coronary when you get to the top (always a good thing).

The route I would like to take to work is back roads from Hazel Grove to Stockport, and then along the Pennine Trail from Stockport to Sale Water Park, which I am told isnt the best of surfaces, and has sty's along it (should I stick to roads then??). I got my route from the newly published cycle maps on the www.cyclegm.co.uk website (very good!!).

I have always owned MTBs, and I must admit, anything else does look a bit odd to me, a bit like the old 'doctors' bike. But I realise that that is just what I am used to seeing, and once I am regularly commuting to and from work, then the 3 main reasons why an electric bike is such a good idea will take over (1 - gets you fit(er) 2 - saves you money, 3 - good for the environment).

I have contacted 50cycles, nearest 'trial' owner is in Bolton, over 20 miles away. They said they only have a Torq, and know of no Sprints or Cadences anywhere near.

[rsscott]

John,

another option for you to consider is going down the kit route. Kinetics do some Heinzmann kits of varying degrees of power. One of these could be retrofitted to your MTB.

[JohnInStockie]

Do you have confidence in these 'self assembly' kits? I am always a bit worried that they are a bit more trouble than something that already built.

I dont want to spend £300-£700 on a kit that makes my bike look like the 'bride of frankenstein'.

I have look at some of the advertized ones and many of them dont look like they 'fit right'. Some using valueable saddle bag space, or with the battery between your knees making you have to ride like John Wayne (I suppose).

I dunno, as you can probably gather, I havent been 'convinced' by these yet. Having said that, I did see that advert on ebay, by the person selling a bike with 2 separate motors capable of 35mph...made me think, "I wonder how far you could take that"

[flecc]

I agree with Russ on this, since one of the Heinzmann kits is geared for hills, though it is slower on the flat as a result. Without big pedal effort, the Torq would most definitely stop completely at an early stage on that 400 metre 1 in 8, I often stand on the pedals to get up my 90 metres of 1 in 8 at enough speed to keep the motor in the power band, and I'm very fit despite my age. It's important to realise that with all electric bikes it's necessary to make a pedalling contribution on hills. The Torq would probably manage about 1 in 20 on it's own, but need help for steeper. The manufacturer specifies it for use with pedalling for up to 1 in 10, hence the large effort needed on 1 in 8.

The Currie motor that's on the low cost IZIP is also available as a kit for fitting to your own bike, and it's quite a good hill climber, certainly better than the Torq on steep hills, so that's a possible alternative to the low gear version of the Heinzmann, but on either, you will have to make a definite effort of your own in pedalling. Ironically, most electric bikes aren't very good at hill climbing on their own, they can only give some help.

[flecc]

Just saw your last post John. The kits we've mentioned are the reliable ones, the Heinzmann in particular being the highest standard of German engineering. It's available with two battery types, a carrier platform type sitting neatly under the carrier surface, or a one or two part side pannier style battery.

The Currie's battery box is in frame, but it's not so wide that you'd need to cycle "bandy". I believe they also may do a carrier version now. The motor fits alongside the rear wheel just behind the spindle on the kit version and is quite unobtrusive. Indeed, if it's used with panniers, the motor below almost disappears from casual view.

Here's the Currie kit link:

http://www.electrodrive.co.uk/kit.htm

and I don't know if youve seen the Currie on the road video, here's the link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6d9qXGf-yiw

and here's the Kinetics link for the Heinzmann motors:

www.kinetics.org.uk

[JohnInStockie]

Thanks for that Flecc, can I ask though, in your opinion, how do you think the Sprint would do. Would it do better or worse than a Kit?

Looking at the Kinetics website, it looks like I would have to opt for one of the illegal 'High-Torque' kits to have a comparison.

Whats your view?

[flecc]

The Sprint would be very similar to the standard Heinzmann, but slightly faster on the flat. The Currie would be very slightly better than both at hill climbing, but about the same speed as the Sprint. The Kinetics site doesn't show the legal low gear option, but they can tell you about it. One of this site's members has one. It runs up to 11.5 mph instead of the legal 15 mph, but gains on the hills because of that.

There are quite a few people who use the high torque 700 watt version and that certainly performs well on hills if you choose standard gearing, but don't choose the high gear 19 mph version for that will squander the hill climbing gain of those 700 watts. However, bear in mind that if you have a driving licence and get stopped for using an illegal version which in law is a motor cycle, you could endanger your licence given the number of laws you'd be breaching. It's a small risk, but a big penalty if you are unlucky.

Also bear in mind the 700 watt one has a short range, you'd need to check if it would be enough.