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[alex]

Hi. I am looking to buy an electric bike, almost every journey from where I live in Edinburgh seems to involve knee busting hills against a headwind. My top contenders are Ezee Torq, iZip Trailz or Trekking Li, Heinzmann Estelle Sport or a new Sunrunner (arrives from Taiwan today) only 3 gears, but v. light with LiFePO4 battery though only 5AH. Could anyone explain AH, the iZip Trekking is 12.2AH? Thanks

[flecc]

Hi Alex, you got into the forum ok in the end then!

The Torq is only good for hill climbing if you are a strong cyclist, since both the motor and derailleur are very high geared. It's a fast climber on moderate hills with a strong cyclist though, but I would never consider it a first choice if hills are the main concern. I own one and am in a very hilly area, so in a position to judge.

The Heinzmann Estelle is a very good quality bike and a good hill climber, and is a good choice for long term reliability. You are also not too far from the leading Heinzmann and Estelle supplier, Kinetics, who are very experienced with these marques.

Those Izip models are new here and nothing is known of that particular model and motor type yet. The old type Currie Izip same power motor was quite a good climber though, so these are probably similar.

Again, the Sunrunner is a new arrival so we know nothing personally about it. However, it was included in the 2007 European Extra Energy test series of many electric bikes, and it scored the joint second lowest hill assistance factor of all, only one bike weaker. Therefore it's definitely seems the wrong bike for your needs.

Conclusion: Since some of your choices are around the £1200 region, you should also consider the two most powerful bikes, the eZee Forte and Forza. Both are a little dearer, but have about 25% more power than anything else on the UK market. The Forza has a similar high speed performance to the Torq, but with the hill climb power as well.

Hope this is some help.
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[flecc]

P.S. I forgot to answer your query on Ah, Alex

It's the initials of Ampere hour, and represents the theoretical number of amps of current that a fully charged battery could issue in one hour, leaving it flat. The higher the number for a given motor, the longer the range.

The number has to be considered in relation to the motor power, higher power motors using more current.

If the ampere hour number is multiplied by the voltage of a battery, that gives the Watt/hour number. For example, that Izip's 12.2 Ah, multiplied by 24 volts is 292.8 Watt/hour. If it's motor consumed an average of 300 watts during a trip, the battery would in theory last almost an hour. The actual range achieved can fall short of the theoretical figure, though the difference is only large with lead acid batteries (SLAs), which, because of their chemical nature, cannot issue all of the charge they contain.
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[vivi]

Hello everyone.

I am, a keen cyclist with 2 young children. I have just bought a trailer to transport them but am now looking for an electric bike. My budget is up to £600 (at a push). I would really like to purchase a second hand giant lafree but would like to know where you can buy them.

Also, are they suitable for pulling up steep hills with a trailer? I live in Bristol where it is very hilly and my daughter's school is at the top of one of the biggest hills!

Another question, is it wise to buy a second hand bike if they are no longer made? (in terms of spare parts etc.)

There is one lafree on ebay but it has no manual, key or charger as apparently it is from an office clearance thing, what do you think...is it possible to replace these things?

Thanks Vivi

[flecc]

Welcome to the forum Vivi.

Be careful with that Lafree, stolen bikes don't have keys and chargers of course! I don't believe the "office clearance" for one moment.

The Lafree can be a good towing bike, but only if it's a Comfort model with 5 or 7 speed gear hub. The standard 3 speed bike with it's 43" low gear is too high geared for towing in very hilly territory. The motor system isn't a powerful one, and with two children on tow you'd still have to work quite hard, and very hard indeed on the steepest Bristol hills. I own a 5 speed Twist and manage 14% hills with a large empty trailer, but when it's loaded, about 10% to 12% is the limit, and it's still quite hard work.

Spares and service are a very real problem now that they've been discontinued, Giant no longer interested in giving support. They still have batteries at a high price of £250, and chargers at £120, though I have another source for chargers at around £45. The motor sprockets which wear a lot are no longer available, so all in all, a second hand purchase is increasingly risky.

The only bikes I can think of that are around your price bracket and very powerful hill climbers are the Powabykes. They trade through local dealers normally, and there are some in your area. If you click the link I'm giving, you'll see two Powabyke dealers at four Bristol locations, and hopefully at least one can let you have a test ride.

Bristol Dealers

One is an approved service centre.
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[allotmenteer]

Originally Posted by vivi

Hello everyone.

I am, a keen cyclist with 2 young children. I have just bought a trailer to transport them but am now looking for an electric bike.

Can I just add that for safety make sure the electric bike you buy has an easily accessible cutoff switch or brake lever cutouts.

Also, are they suitable for pulling up steep hills with a trailer? I live in Bristol where it is very hilly and my daughter's school is at the top of one of the biggest hills!

and very good brakes!

[alex]

Thanks flecc, esp. for directing me to the European Extra Energy tests and for the physics lesson. I found the A to B technical section good on amps etc. I need to check the output in watts of some of the bikes now esp. the motor's peak output, I am seeking gentle assistance up hills not for the motor to do all the work so I have not discounted the Sunrunner.

[Chris]

Hello Flecc,studied your good advise for which many thanks.Having scoured the web am narrowing down a machine with good hill climbing capacity(?)-My short list so far:-Spata ION M-GEAR , Gazell easy glider , Brompton Nano , and the Ezee Forza.Would you be kind enough to rate these machines into an order with your analysis of same.One aspect troubling me is the fact that sometimes a twist grip (throttel) is referred to whilst others appear to demand pedal effort before the motor cuts in-please clarify.I do intend to arrange trial rides (where possible) this next week.
Kind regards Chris

[flecc]

Hello Chris, you've presented me with an easy batch to sort, since they are very different.

The Forza is by far the most powerful and best hill climber, and is also very fast, so it can leave the others standing both on the flat and on any hill.

The Nano motor in the Brompton is quite powerful for it's size, but it's important to read between the lines in it's recent test. A to B reported that it assisted up to 14 mph, and 13 mph when the battery was low. But they reported the average speed of their test as being over 16 mph, making it clear that much of the time, it was the rider's performance that was being reported, not the motor's! Since that 14 mph indicates it's quite low geared in the 16" Brompton wheel, it's obviously climbs well for it's size, but many other e-bikes carry on to 17 mph or so still helping. If you don't need a folder, I don't think it's worth entertaining, as a normal size bike is almost always a far better ride, certainly better than a 16" wheel one.

The Gazelle Easy Glider will climb just about anything, but very slowly, since it's not powerful. The Extra Energy test picked up on this and highlighted it. On a steep hill, you'd slog up at about 5 or 6 mph, where the Forza would be doing more than double that with less assistance from you.

The Sparta Ion is not a good hill climber, mainly because direct drive motors like the one it uses aren't good at that, though very refined in their running. When tested on steep hills by Velovision, it was reported as only able to carry it's own weight up 1 in 5, the rider left to do as much as if they were on a normal bike. Therefore I think you can rule that straight out as hill climbing is what you want.

Electric bikes are usually either Pedelec, meaning you pedal to get any power, or throttle control to get power whether you pedal or not. A few have throttles as well as being pedelec only, meaning the throttle affects the power, but you still have to pedal to get it. None of these is exactly that last type, though the Forza is close.

The latest Forza is a pedelec on which the level of power is dictated by a control called EAF. This has nine positions on which you dial up the power level you want, so you can choose between economy and power in varying degrees. It also has a derestrictor that enables you to do speeds over 20 mph assisted on private land, this being illegal on public roads, but it's always a fast bike due to it's high power.

The Brompton Nano is twistgrip throttle controlled whether you pedal or not.

The Gazelle and Sparta are both pedelec bikes, needing pedalling to get power, this being the law anyway in mainland Europe. For the moment in Britain we are able to have twistgrip only power. Our law may change to be in line with Europe, but that won't affect existing bikes.
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[flecc]

Originally Posted by alex

Thanks flecc, esp. for directing me to the European Extra Energy tests and for the physics lesson. I found the A to B technical section good on amps etc. I need to check the output in watts of some of the bikes now esp. the motor's peak output, I am seeking gentle assistance up hills not for the motor to do all the work so I have not discounted the Sunrunner.

The Torq's peak gross power is 576 watts Alex. It has a Hall effect motor which has a wide quite flat power curve, but as it's a high geared motor, the peak power isn't reached until 12 mph, where it's more useful for high speed attainment.

The Heinzmann is 600 watts gross, but it's a different motor type that gives a peaky narrow band response. If you think of it as 500 watts for comparison with the Torq, you'd be close, but that's reached at 8 mph where it's more useful for hill climbing.

I don't know the new Izip's power for certain, but the Izip motors are usually 450 watt gross. That won't be far out. It may be a motor like the Heinzman's, they usually are from Izip.

I don't know the new Sunrunner's power, but judging from the batteries and reported range, plus the ExtraEnergy test, it's probably about 400 watts gross, maybe a little less. It's a Hall effect motor.

Few manufacturers report these powers, so it's often difficult to get precise information. Gross power is the motor's consumption, the nett power at the wheel is usually about 80 to 85% of that these days.
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