Bear with me, still new here

Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
60
70
Right, I've had the bike a few weeks and done a few very pleasant rides. I absolutely love it (Wisper 905 Classic, pedelec with throttle, hub motor) and wish I had got one years ago. But one thing is puzzling me, and I'm hoping some wise soul will be able to explain.

The bike has five power levels on the handlebar control (OK, six including 'none'). I'm trying to use as little power as possible, both to eke out the battery and to get some exercise. I thought at the beginning that the different power levels would provide a lower or higher level of assistance up to the maximum speed, but now I think that is wrong. If I set off on setting 2, for example, the bike helps me quite vigorously up to about 8 mph and then seems to stop assisting. If I put the power setting up to 4, it helps me up to about 10 mph and then stops. 5 gets me to 12 mph and 6 all the way to 15 mph. But the level of assistance seems to be the same (i.e. quite a lot) at all settings, it just cuts out at a lower speed. If I am riding up a decent hill on setting 3, for example, I have to let the speed drop right down until the assistance cuts in. I think I expected it to assist more at whatever speed I choose to ride at, just more or less assistance depending on the setting.

I hope I have explained that OK. It's not a problem: I love the bike and can't wait to get some time off work to ride it again. But if I understood more about how the assistance levels work, I'm sure I would be able to get more out of it.
 
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Jonah

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 23, 2010
882
246
EX38
That's how many of the Chinese bikes behave, I don't think that's how Wisper used to work but I have no experience of the new ones.
 
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D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
The five levels are not power levels. They're speeds. The throttle is also a speed control device. Both of them set a target speed, and the controller has its own power algorithms to get you to the target speed. Generally, the further you are from the target speed, the more power the controller gives. We're starting to see current control in some modern controllers. The New Oxygen bikes have it. You can set three levels of maximum current independently of the six PAS speed levels.
 

jackhandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 20, 2012
1,820
323
the Cornish Alps
I regard my bike's assistance as a "wedge" of power which is moved up and down, in speed terms, by the level setting.
Power comes in gently as I begin to slow, for a hill mostly, and increases to Max as my speed drops further.

Personally, I find it totally suited to my way of riding, which is mostly fairly long distances at moderate speeds; bumbling along in level 2 (12 mph Max assist), staying just above the threshold as much as possible, and bunging it into level 3 (16 mph Max) as soon as pedalling in 6th gear, of 9, becomes strenuous.
That way I get sensible battery range whilst getting a sensible workout.
 

Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
60
70
Thank you all - that explains it perfectly, and agrees exactly with what I have been experiencing. I have been trying to keep the assistance level low, in the belief that this would simply mean that I worked a bit harder (exercise etc) and the battery would last longer. I'm using 2 out of 6, and wondering why when pedalling along at my usual rate (10-12 mph) I am getting no help at all. So if I want to travel at my usual speeds with assistance, I will need to use level 5 or 6 and not feel guilty about it :) Now I understand this, I will be able to make the most of what the bike has to offer.

It's a shame that this wasn't explained to me at the bike shop - the guy said "think of the power levels as different gears in a car", which in the light of what has been said here isn't very helpful or accurate. The bike's power delivery isn't quite what I was expecting, but I love it anyway. Roll on the weekend, and another ride on National Cycle Route 4 at Neyland.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Sorry guys, I don't believe a word of it. Every test that I've ever done shows that the lower the power setting, the further you can go, but the more tired your legs become.

Most Chinese controllers work on speed control. When you set a lower level, the target speed is lower, and most important of all, the whole efficiency curve moves down with it so that the motor becomes more efficient, which also contributes to the longer range as well as the fact that you get less power from the motor.

I think you need to redo your tests and eliminate external factors. Please check again and see if your results are repeatable.

It's true that in some circumstances you can get more range by increasing current to make your motor run more efficiently, but these circumstances are exceptional and normally involve a lot of hills.
 

jackhandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 20, 2012
1,820
323
the Cornish Alps
Are you responding to the same thread as me, D8veh?

As far as I can see, you don't believe a word of what I said; then say near enough the same thing
:oops:
 
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Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
60
70
??? I never said I had done tests, just reported some subjective experiences. It was your post d8veh that I was agreeing with and thanking you for.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Hmmm! Has something disappeared, or am I having delusions? - probably the latter. I thought I read that someone said that they could get more range on a higher power level, and then somebody else replied to it!
 

Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
60
70
Nothing like that in this thread that I read. Unless somebody posted and then deleted ...
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
I'm sure something disappeared after I made my post.
 

Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
60
70
With my new-found understanding, I went out this morning and did the longest ride yet (13 miles, half-way to my workplace and back, to see if it was doable and to check the journey time*). I used full power all the way, and it was brilliant. It was easy to maintain 15 mph even on gentle uphills, and I averaged 13.9 mph overall. Using the lower power settings wasn't giving me a better workout, it was just limiting my speed. I feel I have learned how to use the bike properly, so thanks to everyone for their input.

*Very doable - just under an hour there and back, which means the same to get to work. Then I have 10 hours driving a desk before I have to do it again. That should be enough recovery time for my poor old legs and knees. Yippee!
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
You'll find that after only a few journeys, your legs become much stronger, so you can pedal steadily all the way without breaking sweat. The main problem is your bum which will start to feel every bump towards the end of your journey. Rear suspension helps. After that, a Suntour NCX suspension seatpost.
 

Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
60
70
The bike already has a suspension seatpost, although I can't feel it working very much. The problem is not the rough ride (which I can take), it's the, er, how do I put it, effect on the gentleman's bits through the compression of the nerves. When I was commuting before, the problem got less as I got fitter (I suspect because when you pedal harder there is less weight on the saddle), but the power assistance would tend to negate this effect. If it proves to be a problem longer-term, I will investigate getting a better saddle.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
The Suntour NCX seatpost bears no comparison with the normal sprung type, which are as good as useless. If you had one, and couldn't see it, you would swear that you were riding a proper full-suspension bike.
 

Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
60
70
OK, supplementary question. If I am riding along on pedal power alone, above the 15.5 mph limit, or freewheeling downhill, but with all the 'power lights' on, is the bike using any power from the battery at all? Logic says that if it isn't providing forward motion or heat, it isn't using any power. But is that how these things work? I'm just wondering about how the riding style affects the battery range. I am finding that, on the flat, I am able to ride above the speed limiter a lot of the time, around 16-17 mph. Can I assume that I am not depleting the battery while I am doing this?
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
You'll be using about 4 watts of power from the battery above that 15.5 mph speed. If you have a cut-off limit, then the motor will be stationary. If it's maxed out, and you ride above that speed, it'll continue to spin at maximum, but it won't be taking power from the battery other than the 4w to power the controller and sensors.
 
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Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
60
70
That makes sense.. Thank you.
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,211
2,174
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Sevenoaks Kent
Most Chinese controllers work on speed control. When you set a lower level, the target speed is lower, and most important of all, the whole efficiency curve moves down with it so that the motor becomes more efficient, which also contributes to the longer range as well as the fact that you get less power from the motor.
This was indeed the case Dave, however a lot of bike out of China now work on torque sensors.

The new Wisper Torque and Kombi Bikes use a clever algorithm that combines a very sensitive torque sensor and a speed sensor. This enables us to increase the power and sensitivity of the TS without experiencing the surge, surge, surge effect of a standard TS. In tests I have been able to set off on a 15% gradient, in top gear, such is the power and sensitivity this new system delivers. The software takes a torque reading 12 times per revolution of the pedals and combines that with information from the speed sensor ensuring a powerful yet smooth ride.

All the best

David