xiongda questions

handbaked

Pedelecer
Feb 27, 2015
166
15
Hi guys

I'm seriously looking into a xiongda 2 speed rear hub and bottle battery setup now as my first build.

I am currently trying to find myself a decent donor bike. Something with discs and some travel up front. I have been looking at the gt avalanch or ridgeback tempest bikes. Does anyone know if there are many bikes the hub cannot go into? As I know the rear triangle needs widening a fair amount. ..

Also I guess the they are designed for 26" wheels. Has anyone got any experience of using the motor on 700c wheels? I guess less helpful for climbing but potential higher speed.

Is the 48v version with matching battery the best route or is 36v motor with either 36v or 48v better?

I am an all weather cyclist with very little ever putting me off going on my bike. Anyone know how well this is going to put up with regular, dirty London commutes?

Current price is £153 delivered for the hub, lcd screen , pas sensor and throttle so seems pretty reasonable.

Looking at spending upto £300 for a battery if anyone has any good suggestions?

Also are there any other useful/essential gadgets to add to this install? I like the idea of torque sensors maybe down the line and hoped the lcd would output the wh/mile.

Cheers.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
There's no question that the 48v one is better than the 36v one. The difficult choice is between the optional Lishui controller or the Kunteng one. The LS one allows you to use low gear whenever you want on any level. The KT one only gives max power in low gear, which you can only select as level 6, or cones automatically in level 5 if you slow fown too much. Both controllers have advantages and disadvantages.

The Speedict Mercury is probably the most convenient device for recording battery consumption information. You just connect it between your battery and controller. You can see all the info in real-time on an Android phone, but it logs it all, so I only get my phone out and look at the end of my ride. You can do all sorts of clever things with the Speedict too. Their website is being redone at the moment, so you can't see anything about it.

Look for a frame with the longest chain and seat stays. A700c one should therefore be easier than the 26" ones that I used. The power/gearing is just about right for these motors with 26" wheels. If you don't weigh much, a 700c would give a speed advantage, but if you're a heavy-weight, a 26" might be better.
 

handbaked

Pedelecer
Feb 27, 2015
166
15
That speedict device seems good however I was initially looking at getting the cheap hobby King watt meter and doing the mod to it as it is a much cheaper solution.

I didnt realise there was an option on the controller when buying from xiongda. I will see if I can find out info on those 2 devices.

I am 11st or less so only a lightweight rider. The ridgeback tempest bike im currently looking at as a donor is a 700c hybrid so it could be perfect. Im guessing the speed advantage would only be a couple of miles an hour? I don't mind pedallning lots and hard when needed so hopefully the slightly higher gear due to wheel size can be compensated for by my legs if needs be!

I have just found out that the motor is IP54 rated so am slightly concerned it would need to be more of a fair weather ride rather than all weather.
 

jonathan75

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2013
794
213
Hertfordshire
I would go for an eclipsebikes battery as they're Samsung cells, in the UK (so well placed to help if there are any problems), and the best-priced by some way. And one can pay by credit card (unlike Chinese sellers who are more expensive after shipping and customs) which means more protection still.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
I ride my Xiongda in all weathers. It's a lot more waterproof than most because it uses blind holes for the disc brake. If you install it properly with the wire exiting downwards, you won't have any problems.

The Speedict device is from a separate company. The basic one costs about £60, so a bit more expensive than the Ebay wattmeters, but a bit more convenient. It's quite small. You just put battery connectors on each side, and then you can clip it in between the controller and battery. It transmits the data via bluetooth - no wires apart from one thin one to the external speed sensor.Some info here:
http://www.speedict.com/index.jspid=com.speedict.client.mercury&hl=en
 

handbaked

Pedelecer
Feb 27, 2015
166
15
Ok. Good to know re: weatherproof. I am personally getting someone to build the wheel for me. Are there any pointers worth telling him before the build?

I did read a little about that meter. Certainly sounds good but initially I think I will leave it just to save some money and to work out what is necessary.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
I honestly cannot see why you should prefer a xiongda XD to the BPM. I know the xiongda is a bit lighter, consumes a bit less power for the same trip than the BPM but there are also other factors against it. Firstly, it has a complicated gearbox arrangement, that means that when you start climbing a hill, it will switch to lower gear after the speed drops down to about 8mph. Doing that, the power is cut for about 5 seconds exactly when the hill gets steeper to allow for gear change. It's clever but unpleasant. Secondly, unless you pack the gearbox with extra grease, it's not quiet. Thirdly, there is no backup source for spares in the UK (special gearbox) and lastly, it's not cheaper than the BPM kit (about £200) after you pay import duty and VAT.
 

handbaked

Pedelecer
Feb 27, 2015
166
15
I'm still open to suggestion to be honest. There are so many options but I quite like the idea of the 2 speed gearing. Which model bpm do you have? I will look into it as I am sure there will be posts on this forum about it :)
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
I have a small 8-Fun BBS01 crank drive motor. It's great but does not suit everyone. For hub drive, the BPM 350W (restricted to 250W) is the yardstick for most e-bikes sold by trade members Kudos, Oxygen and Woosh.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
I honestly cannot see why you should prefer a xiongda XD to the BPM. I know the xiongda is a bit lighter, consumes a bit less power for the same trip than the BPM but there are also other factors against it. Firstly, it has a complicated gearbox arrangement, that means that when you start climbing a hill, it will switch to lower gear after the speed drops down to about 8mph. Doing that, the power is cut for about 5 seconds exactly when the hill gets steeper to allow for gear change. It's clever but unpleasant. Secondly, unless you pack the gearbox with extra grease, it's not quiet. Thirdly, there is no backup source for spares in the UK (special gearbox) and lastly, it's not cheaper than the BPM kit (about £200) after you pay import duty and VAT.
Sorry Trex. That's absolute ball cocks. The changing gear is more or less seemless. Also, you can put it into low gear whenever you want manually.

The Xiongda has loads of advantages, which is why I use one now. I used a BPM before. If I thought it was better, I'd go back to one as I have four of them sitting in my shed. The Xiongda is completely silent - quieter than a direct drive motor. It's light, but can give more torque than the 350w BPM. You don't have to worry about spare parts. You can get them all from Xiongda in about a week. A motor on its own, as a spare part, costs £61 including shipping.

The motor is hardly any more complex than a BPM. At least you can open it, Try opening a BPM2. It has the same parts inside: Rotor, stator, sun gear, three planetary gears and a ring gear. The Xiongda has a better clutch, which is very similar to the Q100 attached to the side-plate, so the gears don't turn when freewheeling. The only extra bits are the second sun gear that adds extra support to the planetary gears and the reverse clutch, which is the same as the forward clutch but in the other direction. Both clutches use the same plate attached to the side-plate, so to look at it, you would see the same as a Q100 clutch. Have a look at the photos I showed in the Xiongda thread and tell me what's complicated about it. It's a very simple but effective design. I wish I'd thought of it.

Finally, the £200 includes duty and shipping. For that you get the motor, controller, PAS, throttle and rather nice large KT LCD.

I guarantee that anybody that tries one of the new Xiongdas will love it. The only problem is the extra complexity of getting the wheel built, and, if you have disc brakes, stretching your frame a bit. The 48v version is the best. It's a bit faster and has a lot more torque than the 36v one for the same standard current.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
Ok. Good to know re: weatherproof. I am personally getting someone to build the wheel for me. Are there any pointers worth telling him before the build?
No. It's nothing special. 14g spokes are good. I used a two-cross pattern.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
the xiongda gearbox is this unit:


I spent hours trying to work out its workings from your pictures - just beyond me. Cost-wise, it costs about the same as a BPM, controller and LCD cost also about the same, so no advantage on cost.
Whenever you can use raw power, anything above 8mph really, the BPM will score highly whereas the xiongda is limited by its size.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
That's the double clutch. You need to see it from the other side. The outer edges or the planetary gears turn the ring gear one way and the inner edges turn the sun gear in the opposite direction. There's three parts to the clutch: the outer darker bit is the ring gear, the middle part with three holes is attached to the hub, the inner bit around the bearing is the sun gear. When it turns one way, the ring gear drives the side-plate, and when it turns the other way, the sun gear turns it. The difference in ratios comes from the different radius from the inner and outer edges of the planetary gears. If you were to look at a Q100 clutch from that side, it, s nearly the same apart from the middle bit.

This is it from the other side attached to the sideplate



This is the Q100 clutch from the same side as the photo you showed

 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
I got it now. It's less complicated than I imagined. I could not work out that the ring with the 3 holes was fastened to the hub from the pictures. Thank you for the clear explanation. The system basically disengages both clutches when the motor is off with the 6 springs. if one of them comes off, the motor will lock up if you try to move the bike backward.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
That's what you would think, but it doesn't lock when you push the bike backwards. Don't forget that although the motor turns backwards and forwards, the side-plate is only driven one way, so both clutches work in the same direction. It's only a question of whether the inner or outer part has the force.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
yes, I know that. I rode an XD kit in Southend last year. I also knew that woosh abandoned the XD project in favour of more BPM bikes.
 

1boris

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2013
343
58
The only thing I dont like about the xiongda is the construction of the high speed gear,it has been slipping on my motor from day one.And has become worse over time.Now the motor often spinns very fast for a long time before it get a grip and then it starts spinning again after a while.resulting in losing speed and power.
 

handbaked

Pedelecer
Feb 27, 2015
166
15
So what are the other cassette and disc brake rear hub motor alternatives? I realise there are tons but ones people have good positive experience of.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
The only thing I dont like about the xiongda is the construction of the high speed gear,it has been slipping on my motor from day one.And has become worse over time.Now the motor often spinns very fast for a long time before it get a grip and then it starts spinning again after a while.resulting in losing speed and power.
I think it would be worth taking the sideplate off and cleaning the three rollers. There must be a bit of dirt in there holding back a roller.