ebike to keep up with road bike for 40 miles

[Arbol]

Thanks d8veh.

I believe I start understanding, after playing around with the simulator:

The key is the black line (the load line). The point where the load line crosses with the power line (red), is the speed / power at which the bike can go up hill without pedalling.

The black line is basically independent from the motor. So, the torquier the motor, the faster the power will fall off at "high" speed, but the faster it will become reasonably high even at low speeds. The faster the motor, the opposite happens: the power curve remains relatively high even at high speeds, but at low speeds, it remains low.

Since a torquier motor will have a higher power curve even at low speeds, with a high grade uphill (steep black line), the intersection between the black and the red line will happen at a higher speed, which allows a higher climbing speed, as well as a higher efficiency and power.

With a faster motor, the intersection between the black and red line happens at lower speed, which implies a lower climbing speed, as well as a lower efficiency and power.

So, the ideal would be a extreme Xiongda (say 100rpm and 400rpm). Or maybe a 2WD extreme Xiongda.

Is that right, now?

 

[John F]

With regard to kits, any Chinese battery can do 1.5C, batteries with high discharge rate BMS are limited to 1000W and usually fitted with Samsung cells.
For Mrs D, a Woosh CD would do well. All the Woosh CDs have Samsung cells
I recommend a crank drive because their maximum speed is only limited by your cadence.

This is the bike I have. My 15 amp battery will give 40 miles I think, but not much more. This is around York which is largely flat. I'm 6'4" and 95 kg by the way. I tend to be lazy and often use the throttle which cant help the range. I think it's highly unlikely to average 17mph though

 

[EddiePJ]

As a dealer, the back-up from BH has been equal to any of the other brands I deal with, although they are slower to respond, particularly in August when Spain goes on "Siesta".
.[/quote]

I'd love to hear the excuses for the remaining 11 months of the year.

The after market service falls way short of the mark, and that's assuming that problems get resolved at all.

doclatham, barge and pole spring to mind.



.

 

[martin@onbike]

I know you've had a bad time of it Eddie, and I do sympathise, but I can only state my experience with them- If we've needed a BH part, it's been with us within a few days, and if we've needed to send anything back for testing and return it's usually been within 2 weeks, though granted, there have been a few that have taken much longer.
I currently have a Bosch battery out with Magura in Germany that has already taken 3 weeks now, as it's not within the remit of the bike brand to deal with the batteries at all...so in my opinion they're all pretty much the same really.
In an ideal world, all the distributors would keep reasonable amounts of spare parts on hand, and as a Dealer, we do try to do this, but it can be quite expensive to keep all the parts for all the bikes we supply.
I can't remember all that happened to you and the extreme, but was it the shop letting you down, or were you dealing with BH Spain directly?

 

[EddiePJ]

Thanks Martin, and I really do hope that from you have indicated that BH are pulling their socks up. I have been told elsewhere that they are, but I'm still very angry with BH, and it's going to take a lot to convince me that they are sorting themselves out, especially whilst I still continue to periodically read negative comments about them. I'm afraid that I'm not going to cut them any slack.

In respect of my bike, at the time, the dealer wasn't getting anywhere with BH UK, and both BH UK and BH Spain ignored my complaints and emails.
It wasn't until I started posting negatively on respective BH Facebook pages for every country that I could find, that action was finally taken. Even that was many months later.
I never did get the correct front forks, and gave up completely on BH as a company. I'm far from alone in respect of being totally pissed off with BH, and certainly won't ever give them any credit for a professional service. They fail miserably in that respect, and despite assurances, I don't see that anything will ever change my mind in respect of that. Combining rear wheel bearing failure and the requirement of replacement front forks, my bike spent months, not weeks, off the road. That is not acceptable by anyone's standard.
In respect of the spoke issues, I wonder how many BH bike owners are still waiting to get that issue resolved.

Despite the above, I really love the bike, and smile with each ride, but that is only because I have taken action myself to replace the sub standard, poor quality, corroding front forks, and upgrade other components*.
Would I ever recommend that anyone ever buy a new BH product? From my experience, no I wouldn't, and given the amount of interest that the bike gets when I'm out and about on it, they are possibly loosing potential sales to each person that I speak to. Next weekend I'm riding in another Wiggle event on the bike, and as with the previous event I expect that bike will receive much interest You can already guess what my answers will be when the questions about the bike are asked.

I'd also have loved to have bought a NEO Race, and despite being offered a discounted price on one as a gesture of goodwill by BH, it was a gamble not worth taking. I'm not even sure that I'd take one if it was given to me.
Although I'll be keeping it, I'm now about to upgrade from the Xtrem to a full suspension bike, and again I would have looked at BH for this as I love style of their bikes and the hub drive, but sadly the prospect of spending a further £500.00 plus to upgrade to a comparative spec against other manufacturers, along with the thought of a seemingly to me meaningless warranty, just isn't worth the risk.


I'm in close and regular contact with several BH owners in America, and the BH experience is very much different over there. BH are very pro active, and even on the US e-bike forum, the importers/dealers take an active roll in trying to both promote the product and listen to their buyers. The impression that I get with the UK end, is that they couldn't give a stuff about the UK e-bike market.

My apologise to doclathan for my rant about BH.

edit... One issue that I do have with my bike, but already know that it isn't worth mentioning to either the dealer or BH, is that error 13 is always rearing it's ugly head, and I loose power completely. The display panel is screwed down so hasn't worked loose, but I have just gone out to check it, and it has a hairline crack to the underside of it. The bracket/mount has already been replaced once due to cracking. I bet without hesitation that if I mention this issue, that it won't be resolved. It is just going to be less hassle for me to just buy a new display panel, than it would be to have the stress and agro of trying to claim for it.



* Personal choice only and no reflection on OE parts.

 

[martin@onbike]

That's fair enough Eddie...once bitten twice shy and all that!
I think i'd be the same as you to be honest after months without my bike.
I won't recommend this to you then as your next purchase:

BH Emotion NEO Jumper 650B

 

[EddiePJ]

Thanks Martin.

The Jumper does look a nice bike and is proving to be very popular in both America and Australia. Especially as it also has the larger 11ah battery and for the US market, a throttle.

Now read my edit and see if you agree.

I just can't be bothered with the hassle of requesting that BH sort out a simple issue such as that.
It goes along way to show my lack of faith in them.

 

[D8ve]

BH also do hub drives.
From personal experience the Panasonic crank drive race is the one I would recommend as a legal bike. On the flat she could draft you and cruse around the 15 to 16 mph easy. Up hill 15 mph is possible and as it gets steeper you would slow down faster than her.
Downhill it is easy running and spins out at mid 20s for me.
So a minimum speed of circa 15 and a max of 25.
The battery will be eaten in a three hour run on Eco but that should get you round your course.

I did have two spokes pop. But the bent headset and wheels in the circa 20mph crash were more significant.
I was legal. If I wasn't then I would have been in real **. Instead the 4x4 driver is due in court.
The bikes were good to me. I haven't had to contact BH themselves.

 

[EddiePJ]

Dave it was reading about your crash incident that persuaded me not to go down the illegal route. I came very close to having a head on crash with a female cyclist on a cycle path, poor obs on her part, but had we collided and I had been on an illegal bike, things wouldn't had gone my way that's for sure.
Your incident is/was a very persuasive one in respect of me making my 2nd bike choice, and I'm grateful for that.

 

[martin@onbike]

You've probably tried everything with regards to error 13..but just in case:

Don't overtighten the handlebar bracket (2 screws)-just tight enough to stop rotation without a heavy push.Overtightening or moving it along to the wider part of the bar is usually what causes it to crack, but not always..

Check the silver "gnurled" connectors to the controller, ensuring they are finger tight and central on the inner plastic(even gap either side of metal collars)

Wipe with a dry cloth on console connectors, both on bracket and display.

Other than that you're looking at swapping out components, which I agree will be a pain in the backside.

 

[EddiePJ]

Thanks Martin. Tightening the bracket slightly over the tapered aspect of the tubing was what caused my first bracket to crack. I was honest enough to hold my hands up to that one, and not just try blag a new one.
I have no idea how the panel has become cracked though. I guess that there are just so many variables for that one, so in truth, proportioning blame wouldn't be fair or just to BH.

The display console is one aspect from the NEO range of bikes that is pretty vulnerable. Even when in a top state of health, they aren't the most robust of components. I don't consider this to be any fault of BH, as they probably aren't even aware of this.

 

[doclatham]

I seem to have generated quite a stream of comments..

Not sure how to reply to individual comments, so here's everything in one place....

My wife is 5ft 9.5" (3" taller than me!)

I think she would like the look of the bike in the photo from trek, was that a Whoosh? But i wouldn't want to borrow it for my commute!

I'd like to try a BH bike (despite the negative feedback - they just look so good), but even Worcestershire is a bit of a trip from Preston. however I have cycling trip around Shropshire later this year so plan to try to combine this with a visit to OnBike to try something (BH or maybe a Kalkoff)

I'm going to get my wife out on her conventional bike for a few short trips and take it from there. I know that if I suggest an ebike she'll reject the idea, so I want her to come to that conclusion herself, but at least I'm now armed with some useful info

Thanks for all the feedback - this really is a great forum and I hope to contribute back when one or both of us eventually get an ebike.

Cheers

 

[jackhandy]

know that if I suggest an ebike she'll reject the idea, so I want her to come to that conclusion herself,
Cheers

Sounds like you've got one like mine

 

[SRS]

Those bikes which might do the job are entirely illegal but if you're happy for your wife to expose herself to potential prosecution, fine.


Tom

Tom, there will always be some who wish to travel faster that a wheelchair.

You keep repeating yourself, is this a medical issue or just an attempt to get people to listen to you?

 

[rippedupno1]

@SRS that's funny

 

[D8ve]

Doclatham

A few things to remember.
Ride all the bikes without power. For comparison.
You don't need a huge range of gears with assist but
Electric bikes are often limited to highest gear range. So spin out at lower speed.
And try as many bikes as you can.
Good luck

 

[Artstu]

Tom, there will always be some who wish to travel faster that a wheelchair.

Hmm, that got me thinking

 

[EddiePJ]

I'd like to try a BH bike (despite the negative feedback - they just look so good), but even Worcestershire is a bit of a trip from Preston. however I have cycling trip around Shropshire later this year so plan to try to combine this with a visit to OnBike to try something (BH or maybe a Kalkoff)

I've already said my bit about BH so won't go over that again, but what I will say is that the most that I have ever had battery wise out of my NEO Xtrem with me doing much/most of the work is approx 35miles. On assist alone, I could kill it in less than 15miles.

I've ridden a race, and will quite happily confess to loving the ride and feel of the bike. I'm approx. 5'10" and even with it's relatively low cross bar position, the bike felt very neutral and at no time did I feel uncomfortable riding it. I'm certain that achieving the required 40mile range, shouldn't be that hard to do, provided that you don't rely solely on battery power.
Should you opt to buy one after trying it, and provided that hopefully you don't have any issues, I feel that the bike won't disappoint.
The only negative thing that I could say about it, is the from memory, the lack of a bottle cage mount. Obviously this is easily sorted.

 

[D8ve]

Eddie
The crank drive has bottle mounts built in the Emotion has the battery where the mount would go normally.

 

[Tim]

The Pro Connect i8 Alfine is perfect for this - it has the range, the reliability, the power.