E-Bike technical help in Belfast

[alamo]

Hello fella's, I'm new here, and hoping that I can meet someone in Belfast who knows how to fix, or
diagnose the problem with my own E-Bike.
The problem being, the bike suddenly lost all power, the LCD comes on, but even after charging the battery,
the battery indicator remains empty. I have taken the bike to several bike repair shops, but unfortunately they are limited in their knowledge of E-Bikes.
I have replaced the motor, and tried a voltmeter, which started smoking when testing the battery. The battery is 48v 11.6ah, and still has the capacity to charge my phone, so I'm stumped as to what the problem is.
Here is hoping someone can help, please!

 

[tommie]

probably need the make of the bike, the controller, the battery etc,

a couple of photos always help as well.

 

[Nealh]

I saw you posted on ES, did you get any answers after I suggested you try here ?
Very unlikely the motor is the problem.
Your VM smoking suggests somethings wrong with it, the very first step is to get a fully charged voltage reading.
If that pans out we can try fault finding one thing at time, no use going wlly nilly at it unti components are ruled out one at a time.

 

[alamo]

I saw you posted on ES, did you get any answers after I suggested you try here ?
Very unlikely the motor is the problem.
Your VM smoking suggests somethings wrong with it, the very first step is to get a fully charged voltage reading.
If that pans out we can try fault finding one thing at time, no use going wlly nilly at it unti components are ruled out one at a time.

 

[alamo]

Hello Neath, thanks for the post above, could you suggest a voltmeter to use, to test the battery, as the one I purchased went up in smoke, which kind of tells me there is plenty of life in the battery, which is what I thought. Is there the possibility that there is no power coming from the motor hub to the rear wheel, and since the motor is new, there might be a problem with the internals in the wheel?

 

[Nealh]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Ammeter-AC-DC-OHM-Current-Circuit-Tester-Buzzer-UK-/282411144382?hash=item41c10414be:g:f5EAAOSwTM5Y2M0q
These cheapy ones work fine.

Show us a pic of your bike and hub or tell us which hub/kit you have.
There probably is life in the battery but we need to confirm and rule it out as an issue, process of illumination one step at a time. If we all just guess at your problem you will just waste money trying to find a cause, as it is you have already replaced the hub which will probably prove unnecessary.
Check the battery first as it is the heart of the machine, then post your findings here.

Unless you help us with the process we can't help you find the cause.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The LCD works independently from everything else, so if it shows that the battery is empty, there's three possibilities:

LCD is faulty
LCD thinks you have a higher voltage battery
Your battery is lower than 38v

First remove the battery, then measure the voltage on the terminals.

 

[Danidl]

Hello fella's, I'm new here, and hoping that I can meet someone in Belfast who knows how to fix, or
diagnose the problem with my own E-Bike.
The problem being, the bike suddenly lost all power, the LCD comes on, but even after charging the battery,
the battery indicator remains empty. I have taken the bike to several bike repair shops, but unfortunately they are limited in their knowledge of E-Bikes.
I have replaced the motor, and tried a voltmeter, which started smoking when testing the battery. The battery is 48v 11.6ah, and still has the capacity to charge my phone, so I'm stumped as to what the problem is.
Here is hoping someone can help, please!

... Was the digital multimeter set on reading current
or resistances by any chance. I am puzzled about the reference to your mobile phone. Surely it is charged at 5 v from a usb type port?

 

[alamo]

Thanks for the advice fella's, I have ordered another voltmeter, so hope that works. In regards to the previous smoking voltmeter, I connected it up as per instructions(complete electric novice) put the prawns of the voltmeter to the battery connection, and then an internal flash and smoke from the voltmeter, so without getting a reading, I'm gathering that a dead battery would not cause that.
Another thing about the battery, is that the USB port from it, still charges my phone, so even as a complete novice to electric and battery power, I'm guessing that their is life in the battery, so the problem must be elsewhere.
For reference, the bike is a pedalease 48v 11.6ah downtube battery, 1000watt rear wheel. Will get pics online today for further reference.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to reply to me, much appreciated.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

A battery can do all that, even when it's knackered, but that doesn't tell you anything. Before you use the voltmeter, set it to how you think it sh9uld be, then post a photo, so we can check it.

 

[alamo]

Hello fella's, I took the advice of several forumers above, and bought a new voltmeter and got a reading from the battery. I tested in 2 ranges with the meter, and got -1.2V and -1769V. I am intrigued how I can go into the minus, but the battery is 48v,and that's not coming up, so I'm guessing it must be the battery that's at fault. Hope to hear back from your good selves with more advice, Thanks.

 

[Nealh]

A minus just indicates the polarity is reversed or you have the probes placed on the wrong pins for reading but won't effect the actual voltage reading.
Your readings suggest your multi meter needs a new battery to start with as you should get a reading from your 48v battery even if it is low.
Also just covering basics on your multi meter, black lead is in Com port and Red in VDC/ V(Ohms)ma and the dial is set to 200 DC reading anti clockwise and not AC clockwise.

Though on AC it will spark and go bang trying to get a DC reading.

 

[Danidl]

Hello fella's, I took the advice of several forumers above, and bought a new voltmeter and got a reading from the battery. I tested in 2 ranges with the meter, and got -1.2V and -1769V. I am intrigued how I can go into the minus, but the battery is 48v,and that's not coming up, so I'm guessing it must be the battery that's at fault. Hope to hear back from your good selves with more advice, Thanks.

... Primer on using a multi meter.
The multimeter as the name implies can measure three separate electric properties with its two leads ... But has to be connected up differently for each purpose. The three properties are electric resistance, electric voltage difference and electric current. More elaborate meters sometimes add other functions like transistor test....

To measure resistance... when the component or circuit to be tested is isolated from any electrical power. The meter then injects a small test voltage between the leads , and measures the current which then flows in the circuit. It then computes the effective resistance and displays it. If there were to be a voltage present in the circuit under test, then it will at best cause an erroneous reading or more probably destroy the meter.
The meter must be set at the resistance knob otherwise it will not be able to inject the test voltages


To measure voltage difference between between points, the meter must be set on the voltmeter knob, and a large voltage range selected .. e.g the 200v range or higher. Then the two leads are connected accross the two points to be measured. If the voltage reads less than 20v, then you can go to the more sensitive voltage scale and get a more accurate reading. In the voltage measuring mode, virtually no current flows into the meter .
There are often two voltage measuring modes DC and AC . In the DC mode, which is the suitable one for ebike s , if the red lead is connected to the positive connection on the circuit then reading will have either a positive symbol or none , if it were connected to the more negative part then it display a minus sign. .. this just signifies that the black lead is more positive.
In the AC mode, and not all meters have this, the electronics inside the meter, assume that youu are trying to measure a 50 Hz. Sine wave... Such as UK mains voltage and it adjusts the readings .the readings will be erronous if a DC voltage is being measured. .. however there will be no ill effects or damage to the meter by being in the wrong mode.

Measuring current is the most difficult and potentially damaging measurement. You can only measure current by breaking into a circuit, and inserting the two leads into the break, so that the current which would normally flow will also flow in series through your meter. You will instantly damage a meter if you connect a meter while in current measuring mode , accross the circuit, ... Eg the position for measuring voltage. This is because the resistance of the meter while measuring current is designed to be very small, so a large current can flow in it if connected accross a source of voltage...
again some meters can measure DC and AC currents.
1. Most multimeters use only two leads and may have either two or three connections. .. one used for common or the black terminal, and maybe one for current and a third one for voltage. .. the red lead gets connected to one of these . These are slightly safer to use than the two connection types as you have to make an explicit decision to use the current terminal

Turn on the meter while disconnected from the ebike . Switch to resistance mode and then bring the two leads together, the meter should read 0 and maybe beep, indicating zero resistance. If that happens then you know the battery in the meter is ok.
Then ensure that the leads are in the voltage connection and the function selected is DC and voltage, and the range set at 200v. Or 2000v , and then feel free to measure.. reduce the range , increasing sensitivity and note your readings. ..
.

 

[alamo]

Hello fellas's, thank you for your replies in the quest to help me get power back into my bike, unfortunately it's still dead! I bought a new like for like battery, because after all your replies I thought I had a dead battery, but, unfortunately the new battery after being fully charged reads the same, the LCD displays no power in the battery.
So the situation is, I have replaced the motor
Tried a new battery
But still no power unfortunately.
The only other thing I can think off is, could the back wheel be the problem, in regards to getting power through to it, this all happened after getting new schwable tyres fitted, the new tyres are great, but has the rear wheel been damaged?
Well, hope to hear from one of use soon, after nearly a year of loving the ebike, unfortunately this is the last throw of the dice, the frame is great, the battery is OK, just no power, and unfortunately I live in a city where no one knows much about ebikes (after lots of enquiries), so I will consider selling, and it could be a simple loose wire, but my knowledge is negligible and the problem can't be identified, never mind fixed!

 

[tommie]

Hmmm... new tyres fitted?!!

You really need to post up pics of where the cable enters the hub, the bike make etc etc
Did you try phoning John Hanna in Lisburn? He`s a dealer in ebikes.

 

[alamo]

Hello, I got new schwable puncture proof tyres, as I suffered a puncture, and got 2 anti-puncture tyres fitted, which are fantastic, very smooth. But I'm just wondering has the rear wheel connections been compromised. But, the LCD should still have a full power reading though, which at the moment still has no bars! I think I need Colombo on this!!

 

[Danidl]

Hmmm... new tyres fitted?!!

You really need to post up pics of where the cable enters the hub, the bike make etc etc
Did you try phoning John Hanna in Lisburn? He`s a dealer in ebikes.

Hi. Tommie,. I .got my bike from him, seems to be very knowledgeable and has both premium centre drive models and lower cost hub motor units. Lisburn no distance from Belfast.

Hello fellas's, thank you for your replies in the quest to help me get power back into my bike, unfortunately it's still dead! I bought a new like for like battery, because after all your replies I thought I had a dead battery, but, unfortunately the new battery after being fully charged reads the same, the LCD displays no power in the battery.
So the situation is, I have replaced the motor
Tried a new battery
But still no power unfortunately.
The only other thing I can think off is, could the back wheel be the problem, in regards to getting power through to it, this all happened after getting new schwable tyres fitted, the new tyres are great, but has the rear wheel been damaged?
Well, hope to hear from one of use soon, after nearly a year of loving the ebike, unfortunately this is the last throw of the dice, the frame is great, the battery is OK, just no power, and unfortunately I live in a city where no one knows much about ebikes (after lots of enquiries), so I will consider selling, and it could be a simple loose wire, but my knowledge is negligible and the problem can't be identified, never mind fixed!

The good news is that the bike worked once so there is either a single fault or a set of faults stopping it working now. Systematic investigation can sort it out. There are only a limited number of possibilities . The battery , the fuses, the controller, it's wiring, the motor and it's wiring and any human interface .. LCD panel or otherwise.
Some of these you have already eliminated as possible faults but you might have also introduced new faults.

. According to many accounts the motor in the hub is pretty robust, so unlikely to have faulted.
I am concerned about the smoking multimeter, and could it have caused damage to the electronics in the controller.

Who fitted the back wheel and tyre? . If they were unfamiliar with electric hubs they may very well have left leads disconnected.
Since you now have a working multimeter and my instructions on how to use it start taking measurements and let us know.. there is plenty of guidance here.

 

[alamo]

I got the schwables fitted by the fella who put the bike together for me when I bought it, and it has worked brilliantly up to the point of failure. I took the battery of the bike to test it, as it can be taken off and on, it has a fitted key mechanism. When testing the battery, I got the smoking voltmeter. But the situation is still the same with the new battery, no bars of power. There is only one lead that goes into the back tyre, which is tight, and connected, the rest of the leads all have different size fittings etc, so there is zero possibility of crossed wires. It is a massive mystery as to what the problem actually is!

 

[Danidl]

I got the schwables fitted by the fella who put the bike together for me when I bought it, and it has worked brilliantly up to the point of failure. I took the battery of the bike to test it, as it can be taken off and on, it has a fitted key mechanism. When testing the battery, I got the smoking voltmeter. But the situation is still the same with the new battery, no bars of power. There is only one lead that goes into the back tyre, which is tight, and connected, the rest of the leads all have different size fittings etc, so there is zero possibility of crossed wires. It is a massive mystery as to what the problem actually is!

. Everything is as mystery until it is solved. Using the voltmeter function follow the power from the battery through its switch, and possible fuse down to the controller... This will be a box with lots of wires , some to the motor, some to the battery , some to any display or controls and some to some sensors.
. List what is working and what is not..