You omit the alternative, that at some point the country sees the Tories as not being re-electable and Labour offering some attractions.
By the time the Tories have completed their Brexit shambles there's a very real prospect of that happening.
.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
By the time the Tories have completed their Brexit shambles there's a very real prospect of that happening.
.
don't underestimate their unity when it comes to not to call a new GE. As long as TM can kick the brexit can further down the road, they'll keep her in the job.
But there will probably be more pain for the public by 2022 when the next GE will have to be held. That, coupled with a couple of Labour attractions could easily tip the balance.
.
Do you really think Labour will ever get in power making noises about luxury communism and unworkable policy on business tax.?I can't see it myself no matter what Tories do.
Will be seen whatever solution to Brexit Labour can muster Tories can replicate with one end or other of their party, so any Brexit plus will be cancelled out, leaving country to decide if they actually want luxury communism with all that entails for business.
Will be seen whatever solution to Brexit Labour can muster Tories can replicate with one end or other of their party, so any Brexit plus will be cancelled out, leaving country to decide if they actually want luxury communism with all that entails for business.
Of course you can't, the blinkers are getting in the way.
As I said, wait and see. The public are increasingly sick of the expensive, inadequate and failing outcomes of Tory privatisation. This issue as it's affected the NHS, Water and Rail makes Labour's alternative attractive to ever increasing numbers. It's only your bigotry that sees public ownership of essentials as communism. It's nothing of the sort, it's just the commonsense that huge numbers of countries practice successfully worldwide.
.
may be not much pain.
TM would do everything to get a transition period which is a kind of putting the UK in a stasis chamber.
She will only have to figure out then how to kick the can a little further until 2022 GE.
JC will be too old then to be a threat.
I'm speaking of pain by 2022, not at an interim point. I think there'll be plenty upsetting the public even more by then.
And Corbyn's age won't be a factor. Trump is now what he will be then and Churchill didn't resign from PM office until he was eighty.
.
Whoa there!
"luxury Comunism" what manner of beast is that you are speaking of?
And exactly what will it entail for business?
I see it as no such thing and your insult of bigotry is way out of order.
The only thing I see as communism are stupid Labour leaders proclaiming communism as way forward and in doing so simply loosing more and more votes.
The only people exhibiting characteristics of bigotry are those you continually support. Bigotry is nothing to do with expressing other opinions, as I often do. It's showing intolerance of those exhibiting alternative views, sort of as you do on occasions.
I have shown nothing but respect of others views even admitting on several occasions you may well be right. Perhaps you should re read your own posts before throwing insults around. I find your bigotry comments very out of character for you flecc. Perhaps you have read to many of Tom's posts. It's rubbing off on you.
Your "leavers are racist "post was height of bigotry and again surprising from you. Perhaps you call it your attempt at intelligent discussion. It's not mine.
I suspect your comments are starting to show level of your desperation for Labour who continue to make massive strategic mistakes destroying any chance they have of getting in no 1
0. Labour don't need right wing press to keep them out of power. They are doing the job fine on their own.
Last edited:
You obviously missed deputy Labour leaders speech and interview as you did Labour plans for both business tax and Boards of Directors. Do your research OG.
I did, the ideas are sound enough, so I ask again, what is this luxury Communist thing?
I suspect you know rather less about communism than you imagine, if you think these rather mild proposals are "Communist"
"progressive" is a more appropriate term.
You obviously know and are asking if I do.... Basically the deputy Labour leader sees a Utopian future where the Labour force is replaced by automation yet with increased production capacity/profit and a redistribution of wealth to ensure we can all live in lap of luxury.... and that is best labour can come up with during both our brexit time of crisis and many world renowned economists predicting a worse world wide recession than any we have ever seen. And what does Labour suggest... Putting thousands out of work to automation, making sure 30% of boards of directors for all big firms are from shop floor, leaving EU or putting forward a none working list for Brexit whilst been ravaged by racist and anti semitic claims . Oh yes Labour are really electable. They haven't even established the problems in our society/economy let alone established some answers. They are in complete and utter disarray.
Exactly where is Labour's capital coming from ?? What are they going to build? Who are they going to sell it to ? Its pie in blue sky thinking, during a storm. Its bullshit. Voters will see it as such,playing into tory hands.
Progressive my 4rse.
Last edited:
re-establish clause 4 using the same money tree that TM used to buy the DUP's support.
quote:
To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service
I much prefer the new labour clause 4:
'The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect'.
Last edited:
I agree it sounds great, and it might bribe a few. We used to call it BBB concepts. Bs Baffles Brains.
https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/
This is amongst the best pieces of avoidance strategy writing I have ever read. It's quite easy to see why. At the end of every statement ,just like the kids programme from 70s, just ask.. "How?"
There are no answers in the entire manifesto... Its uterrly pointless.It's author is either extremely clever or simply dumb. I suspect the latter.
The author (s) have given countless Aims /Objectives but not a single method of either achieving them or knowing when they have done so. Had I written it for a Faculty I ever worked for, it would have been thrown straight back. Had a student written it, I would have returned it as ungraded. It isn't finished. I would have written How? on every page in large red ink and on last page How do you know when anything is achieved. It has pseudo academics written all over it. It's terrible.
I just don't understand how this can be seen as an acceptable piece of work from our shadow government. It really is appalling. If saying this.makes me a bigot. Well so be it. I, d be ashamed to publish it.
Last edited:
You posted this
"A Utopian future where the Labour force is replaced by automation yet with increased production capacity/profit and a redistribution of wealth to ensure we can all live in lap of luxury."
Curiously this was foreseen way back in the 1970's by a think tank I was a member of called "The Home of the Future"
And it would have happened as expected, but we hadn't taken into account that rather than invest in modernising this country, the parasitic investor class would reject the idea of making this country a world industrial leader, and instead seek a fast buck by investing in factories that used Slave Labour in the far east.
And running the World's biggest betting shop to make up for allowing industry to wither on the vine.
And that is why Brexit is doomed: the Parasitic class that destroyed that dream will destroy yours too.
History will repeat itself
They conned you and you fell for it.
I don't disagree with any of that OG. As for Brexit being doomed, perhaps. However, just examine the link in my previous post. That is the level of opposition our current government face. Now just imagine when you were working and firm was under an attempted buy out by a competitor and you were asked to come up with a strategy to improve production, HR, sales, the works. And you produced this drivel. Company would be bought out and gone. Yes, Tories are directly responsible but in no small measure because Labour allowed it.
Imagine you shouting at some managers meeting "I will increase productivity and profit margins" Everyone in room would look at you and say"Go on OG, tell us how? " In every single facet labour are clueless as to HOW to achieve anything.
Trouble is entire electorate are probably now more cynical and questioning than ever. When eejit Cameron offered us "leave" we should all have asked "How you going to do that?" The campaign should have demanded firm route map for both objectives.
When JC stands up next GE and says he will negotiate a better deal (as stated in his manifesto somewhere) I suspect many like myself will be saying "How the feck you going to do that?"
We should have learned our lesson.
Last edited:
Theresa May calls for immigration based on skills and wealth
Key post-Brexit policy to include no preferential access to UK labour market for EU citizens
I understand the need/desire to get more dosh here. But I really don't like the idea of selling residency like seats on an airplane. (Guess that means they'll contract the process out to RB & Virgin.)
Key post-Brexit policy to include no preferential access to UK labour market for EU citizens
I understand the need/desire to get more dosh here. But I really don't like the idea of selling residency like seats on an airplane. (Guess that means they'll contract the process out to RB & Virgin.)
But of course we haven't "learned our lesson" or at least the Brexit Voters haven't, they are still expecting Brexit to deliver better things, and Labour have offered them just that.
Brexit was to a large extent a protest vote against overbearing government, the Banks and the elite business class, the voters in favour of it were seeking more than simply leaving the EU, they wanted change of the way that their lives are run, and more power.
Privatisation has failed and Nationalisation looks to many to be the way to go.
Reducing the powers of the captains of industry with workers on the boards is another that fits well with this wish to have major changes take place and a shift in power towards the people form the Elite.
And the public rather like the idea of Business and Banks to pay more taxes.
Labour could well tap into these aspirations, and after all what are the Tory party offering? fifty more years of things getting worse before the get better?
Do I think Labour is doing the right thing?
No, the odds against them are far too big, not manageable even if we remain in the EU, and a dead certain failure outside it.
The only workable future for us is to stay in the EU
Manwhile the politicians on all side throwing towels over the deckchairs as the Titanic goes down.
Rather going against the "Will of the people" that expects us to educate and train our own to enjoy these positions, no to deny that opportunity to "our own"
and gift them to "foreigners"
Just imagine what a troublemaker could do with that message if after Brexit times are hard!
They would raise hell about it
What is worse, they would be right to take that attitude, morally it is a betrayal of the next generation, being excused as a "necessary" expedient taken by a "reluctant" government because the "People's Will" imposed Brexit on them.
It's a lie of course, but only the First of many using the same excuse and of course great when blaming the EU falls out of favour
https://dailym.ai/2OLGvcD
Yes, I know DM puts its usual spin on such things but 2 points.
A)Labour insist on providing such fodder for right wing press to regurgitate.
B) Read the comments to glean in idea of what people think about Labour at moment.
Yes, I know DM puts its usual spin on such things but 2 points.
A)Labour insist on providing such fodder for right wing press to regurgitate.
B) Read the comments to glean in idea of what people think about Labour at moment.
Last edited: