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Old 1st July 2008, 12:15
flecc flecc is offline
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Default Long Term Test Outcome - eZee battery

Members aware that I've been conducting a confidential long term intensive test over the last six months have been variously guessing what I'm testing, and those who guessed battery have been right. When asked at the start of the year if I would be interested in doing this, the answer was obviously yes. Who would say no to free battery usage for half a year, but I trust no-one will think this a corrupt inducement.

Given the poor record of lithium bike batteries with regard to current delivery failure and short life, I was determined to give this one hell on earth, so I chose to test on the Q-bike, riding it Quando fashion all the time, resolutely refusing to pedal unless absolutely necessary just short of stalling. Every day included at least one 20% climb and at least one long climb over a minimum of three miles, and most days there were two rides, on the odd occasion three. A very few trips were short, but the many used all or most of the charge. There were half a dozen days when the weather was too bad for long rides, and for those I rigged up a two hour rate discharger, using it twice on those days, so the battery was never rested throughout the six months.

The total distance ridden was 3784 miles (5558 km) with 226 charges, similar to a years usage by a five day a week commuter doing over 15 miles a day.

Early in the test on a warm January day I did a range check on a carefully planned route that had it's final miles very flat to ensure battery cutout would be due to it's being empty rather than cut out by a sudden high loading, and the distance covered was 23.2 miles, including plenty of climbing and a 20% hill, no pedalling except just enough on that steep hill to prevent stalling.

I've now completed a repeat of the identical trip, the distance to cutout being 19.97 miles, indicating a capacity loss of 13.9%. For a year's equivalent usage on lithium this is excellent, especially given the very rough treatment it's received, including it being being smashed into two on it's trip from China and used ever since bandaged back together with duct tape. The original expert predictions for lithium were for a loss of 33% per annum. The range and charge time indicate the one I was testing is about 14 Ah, which if I'd been pedalling as well would normally get me 40 miles or more, since my 10 Ah one reaches over 30 miles normally

There are two types of this new generation battery, a 4.6 kilo Li-ion Manganese which I've been testing, made by Phylion, the company who made the failed early eZee batteries but who've clearly come on a long way since that 2006 design, and a 3.3 kilo Li-polymer made by another company being tested elsewhere in the same way, and the results have been as good on both types.

Some of the Phylion batteries appeared in prototypes for a tentative new manufacturer's e-bike, and over the last six months eZee have shipped around 1000 of these batteries worldwide as warranty replacements and in an order completion, and with both types performing as well, eZee will be adopting the lighter 3.3 kg polymer one in future. I'm told the interim Sanyo battery is to be discontinued since there have been difficulties in getting adequate supplies.

So at long last we can look forward to using the performance of these high powered bikes without the constant fear of battery cutouts and short life. I can't say at the moment when supplies will be available, but no doubt eZee or Cyclepoint will announce the arrival of the first stocks.

Footnote: Hardly pedalling for six months has been tedious, my fitness has suffered and I'm looking forward to spinning once again instead of being slumped on the saddle like a sack of spuds for hours every day.
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Last edited by flecc : 1st July 2008 at 12:28.
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Old 1st July 2008, 12:50
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rsscott rsscott is offline
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Excellent work () Flecc, I'm sure many of us can't wait for pricing and availability !
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Old 1st July 2008, 12:54
aaannndddyyy aaannndddyyy is offline
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Flecc 3784 miles without pedalling not something I would do even with a promise of a free battery.
There looks like batteries are improving in leaps and bounds at the moment with lithium-ion(lifepo4), Li-ion Manganese, and Li-polymer all promising bigger storage capacity, longer run times, and longer life cycles, is there a place for them all or will one come out on top, i.e. like Betamax, VHS,

Last edited by aaannndddyyy : 1st July 2008 at 13:14.
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Old 1st July 2008, 13:39
flecc flecc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaannndddyyy View Post
Flecc 3784 miles without pedalling not something I would do even with a promise of a free battery.
There looks like batteries are improving in leaps and bounds at the moment with lithium-ion(lifepo4), Li-ion Manganese, and Li-polymer all promising bigger storage capacity, longer run times, and longer life cycles, is there a place for them all or will one come out on top, i.e. like Betamax, VHS,
For bike manufacturers I think it will be Li-polymer for the present and LiFePO4 following some while later.

I understand that most e-bike distributors favour Li-polymer, and their opinion will be influential.
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Old 1st July 2008, 16:45
oldosc oldosc is offline
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Members aware that I've been conducting a confidential long term intensive test over the last six months have been variously guessing what I'm testing, and those who guessed battery have been right. When asked at the start of the year if I would be interested in doing this, the answer was obviously yes. Who would say no to free battery usage for half a year, but I trust no-one will think this a corrupt inducement.
You must be joking, you get six months free battery use , and all you have to do is to sit on a bike for six months WITHOUT EVEN PEDALING, cover 3748 miles, write a bitty report (you dont even go out in the rain much by the sound of it).
I will leave it up to the non corruptly induced forum members to comment on this...

Do you think, the battery on Lady J's silverado is of this ilk....(post passem)..I have a little trouble with this bike..so far she has out-performed me on all five trips, me on the |Agattu and her on the diddy bike, the only consolation is range...on the trip when I had a puncture..Her Silverado collapsed at 22 KM (of brutal hills) whilst my Aggatu had 2 lights showing.
I know that's an appaling piece of data (maybe only anecdotal) BUT Lady J is not a v strong biker, and I am amazed how much help the motor is for her)

ps as an ex engineer You must be aware of the esteem I hold this piece of research in.. salve ..Oldosc
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Old 1st July 2008, 17:08
flecc flecc is offline
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Thanks Oldosc, I know of course. The important thing is that Lady J gets enough help over the distance she covers, and that seems to be the case for her.

I should stress that I wasn't asked to test in the way I did, I was merely asked to use the battery in the way I normally would. However, given the grief lithium batteries have caused so many people, I wasn't going to let it get nodded though on my normal fairly light usage, hence the torture treatment.

27 degrees today, so I've just had a drive down to Ashdown Forest in my climate controlled air conditioned limo where there was a nice breeze across the heathland. Pleasant change from the bike, could get too used to it.
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Old 1st July 2008, 17:22
Sector Sector is offline
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Default Good work.

Good work Flecc. I've tried not turning the pedals and it is much harder than one would think.

I'm very pleased that Phylion seem to have sorted out their problem.

I wonder if the Phylion lithium ion I got hold of on the 02/01/08 is the same type as you have been testing.

My battery is labelled:
Phylion High Energy Battery
XH370-10J
It also has a 12 character alphanumeric serial number.
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Old 1st July 2008, 17:43
flecc flecc is offline
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It could be, but the type number labels weren't changed or the number of serial number characters, since these were not part of a permanent contract to supply due to the need for testing over time.

Regardless, the Phylions produced from mid 2007 on were greatly improved anyway, but they were 10 Ah. If your range is the same as you got when the bike was new, it won't be this type, since this one's larger capacity would add about 40% to the distance.
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Old 1st July 2008, 18:16
john john is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flecc View Post
I've now completed a repeat of the identical trip, the distance to cutout being 19.97 miles, indicating a capacity loss of 13.9%. For a year's equivalent usage
Flecc, Do you think it would be the same for 12 calender months? I think we have seen Lithium battery degrading due to time alone as well as use. I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
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Old 1st July 2008, 19:20
HarryB HarryB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sector View Post
Good work Flecc. I've tried not turning the pedals and it is much harder than one would think.

I'm very pleased that Phylion seem to have sorted out their problem.

I wonder if the Phylion lithium ion I got hold of on the 02/01/08 is the same type as you have been testing.

My battery is labelled:
Phylion High Energy Battery
XH370-10J
It also has a 12 character alphanumeric serial number.
My original replacement battery (early 2007) has the same number as this, as does the replacement I had to buy in November 2007. I have been very impressed with the replacement battery although to be fair I have never really tested the range. It shows no sign of aging having done 20 miles most working days up until I got my Agattu (in the last month really). I was told that it was only the bms that had been changed but as the last two batteries began to die at around the 5-7 month stage I think that there must have been a bigger change.

It is a shame as for me it all came a bit late as I lost confidence in the batteries and decided to jump ship. The replacement battery was a stop gap to get me by, but then the Agattus with their 2 year battery guarantee clinched the deal.

Any idea of the guarantee out of interest?
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