£250 Workplace Parking Space Tax coming?

[Tim]

Oof, take that motorists...

Motorists to pay £250 tax for parking at work - Telegraph

£250 per space per year which can be passed on to workers by employers, likely to take effect in Nottingham, at first, from 2012.

If only there was some other viable means of travelling the miles between home and work with relative ease?

 

[iaing]

Wonder if there is any way 50cycles can be persuaded to spend half as much time answering emails as they do on posting on Pedelecs?

Iain

 

[Barnowl]

Just more taxation. I'm sure one way or another we'll all end up contributing. The scheme would go ahead in 2010.

I read it on Teletext a bit different:
The city's (Nottingham) firms could be forced to pay £185 a year for each of their parking spaces. This would go up to £350 by 2015 (if there were more than 11 parking spots I believe).

 

[flecc]

The main London policy has long been one of starving motorists of workplace spaces, this done by planning restrictions severely limiting the provision of spaces on any development or change of use. It's a much fairer system since it doesn't penalise the less well off. Of course the public car parking provisions are still cash regulated in part, though inadequate provision is still a big factor.
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[Vikki]

Hit the worker. Hit the worker. Hit the worker.

Whadaya mean they're screaming? Squeeze them till the blood comes out.

Afraid our government believes strangled Joe and Joan public have bottomless pits for pockets.

Hmmm, Brown is Fagin and his MPs and councils are The Artful Dodger and Co.

Vikki.

 

[Mussels]

The main London policy has long been one of starving motorists of workplace spaces, this done by planning restrictions severely limiting the provision of spaces on any development or change of use. It's a much fairer system since it doesn't penalise the less well off. Of course the public car parking provisions are still cash regulated in part, though inadequate provision is still a big factor.
.

When there are only 10% of the spaced needed then the best paid usually get them and the poorer workers are penalised by not having any option.
Of course in London with it's congestion tax most people can't afford to drive in anyway and the parking tax will be a drop in the ocean.

I think it's a good idea but a little short sighted as it will mean lots more areas needing resident parking restrictions as people choose (or are forced) to park round the corner.

 

[Barnowl]

Vikki is right it hits the worker the hardest. Many families need both partners working these days so the impact on the houshold could be twice those figures mentioned!.

We all have to work that bit extra hard or suffer below inflation salary increases/decreases to compensate for the latest cost cutting exercises even if the company foots the bill.

Customers can also join in by paying higher costs on products whether they use public transport or cycle to work or not.

I'm struggling to find anything positive to say on this one. Ah yes I don't live in Nottingham

 

[Straylight]

So what's the answer to the need for a far less car-centric culture? Seems to me that the only way to crowbar such embeded attitudes is to make it more unconfortable to drive. London has a fantastic public transport infrastructure, and yet the only way to relieve the traffic to any extent was to levy the congestion charge.

If companies are faced with a massive bill for employees parking then it may make them restructure so that more of their staff can work from home, in particular the besuited ones, most of whom use a computer & telephone as their principal tools.

Lets face it, people are, on the whole, complacent beggars that simply don't like the idea of change, and will always pull out the "poor me, oh my life is so hard already.." type nonsense at the slightest danger of actualy having to address any issue beyond their day to day existence. Perhaps some of these moaning minnies should try living in say Nigeria, or the Gaza Strip for a couple of months to find out what a 'hard life' actually is.

So I ask you, what would you do if you were one of the Gordon Browns of this world? It's incredibly easy to criticise, but much harder to come up with a viable alternative.

For me, I'd push harder, charge more, turn driving into far more of a luxury, in an attempt to make car pooling, cycling, catching the bus etc. the norm rather than something that is still seen as 'taking the initiative'.

 

[Barnowl]

So what's the answer to the need for a far less car-centric culture? Seems to me that the only way to crowbar such embeded attitudes is to make it more unconfortable to drive.

We "needed" a far less cigarette smoking culture. They banned advertising on TV and stopped blatently pushing it in films and on TV programs (Topgear springs to mind). Too many people are buying status guzzlers just to do a few miles around town. There's lots of good ideas but the only ones that seem to get approval are the ones that increase tax revenue. Not surprising really given the hole we are in at the moment. Also this car parking charge doesn't distinguish between someone driving a VW Polo E-motion and someone driving a whopping great Lexus 4 wheel drive.

 

[flecc]

So I ask you, what would you do if you were one of the Gordon Browns of this world? I's incredibly easy to criticise, but much harder to come up with a viable alternative.

I'd massively increase the tax on petrol and diesel for private transport, making it so extremely expensive that public transport or personal electric transport became very attractive to all income groups.

As well as decreasing the number of i.c. motor vehicles on the road and reducing their average powers, that would have the additional benefit of producing substantial extra revenue to help us out of the present huge national debt position.

In parallel, I'd greatly increase the punishments for illegal use of fuels intended for other than private use, making them a savage deterrent.
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[RobinC]

I think there can be situations where this is a good idea. The example I am thinking of is a city centre local council which has parking spaces for some managers. Parking spaces in the nearby multi-story are something like £5/day so these guys, who are already better paid than the rest of the workforce are getting a benefit worth over £1000/year. In this situation it would seem only fair they should pay more tax or consider if they really need the space.

Robin

 

[Footie]

Tim posted:
…. £250 per space per year which can be passed on to workers by employers ….

This could be a problem for us here in the Southwest if it goes national, were public transport is a joke. Most households have to have both partners working so they can afford the rent (can't buy houses here on local wages), and each usually have to have a vehicle to get to work. So the hard pressed, low paid, would once again be forking out more money to fund this countries asinine system - were the very poor pay what they have left and the rich pay peanuts and everyone else funds the state and the MP’s expenses.

-----------------------------------------------
Cougar Mountain Electric Bike 36v 200w Hub motor (Jul07)
fitted with 10 Ah LiFePo4 battery (Apr08)
Maximum range (road/hills - Cornwall) 18 miles
Maximum range (on flat) 25 miles
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[Barnowl]

Flecc: I really like that idea because it addresses so many of the real issues and is so much fairer. Perhaps we could have some sort of mileage allowance to help people who lived in areas where services are far apart and public transport is a joke.

Gradual increases to enable public transport and alternatives to catch up rather than a massive hike on day 1.

 

[flecc]

Perhaps we could have some sort of mileage allowance to help people who lived in areas where services are far apart and public transport is a joke.

Gradual increases to enable public transport and alternatives to catch up rather than a massive hike on day 1.

That mileage allowance been suggested previously, and there's no doubt that a country subsidy would be necessary. In fact we've needed one for a long time since it will never be possible for all the more remote spots to have a good public transport service. However, some of the revenue from my suggestion could be used for the subsidy and public transport improvements.

Having said that, life without a very good public transport service is possible. I lived in the village of Widdecombe on the Moor for a while during World War 2 and we had one bus service a week on Wednesday for a 13 mile trip to Newton Abbot for shopping. Two buses took all of us there in the morning and then brought us back in the afternoon a few hours later. Of course I'm not proposing that one bus a week is adequate for everyone, but I'm just as sure that people really do not need buses every few minutes. They only think they do.
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[tillson]

However, some of the revenue from my suggestion could be used for the subsidy and public transport improvements.

It’s a nice sentiment, but I have a sinking feeling that all the government would do is to shovel the extra cash into the pockets of the unworthy. Watching Jeremy Kyle on a 52” plasma doesn’t come cheap you know and the money has to come from somewhere.

 

[flecc]

It’s a nice sentiment, but I have a sinking feeling that all the government will do is shovel the extra cash into the pockets of the unworthy.

Very true. I was being idealistic of course, while knowing from long experience that the right solutions never happen.
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[simonbarnett]

I've missed a good semi-political rant on the forum. My views may be right or wrong, but I come at this from the opposite end of "tax what you don't approve of".

First, it's a blunt instrument as the really rich are unaffected and others caught.

Second, it's just more sneaky taxation.

Third, the fatal flaw is to think people have viable choices- the biggest complaint about congestion charging was that London Transport is actually pathetic so drivers were buggered either way.

So what you really need to do is invest in systems/alternatives that are positive choices (eg a great tube/bus service), rather than rely on financial deterrents like this or petrol/diesel tax increases which further distort competition/profitability.

Proof? Some days I drive, pay congestion charge and workplace parking if I need to drop the kids/be prepared/look right/journey on for meetings. Other days I cycle for free in the same time. But hardly ever do I choose to use the tube in rush hour because it's gross.

Sometimes the radical in me thinks we should just make great public transport free. Amazing green effect as millions take advantage and clear the roads. So you can cut all the other expensive green incentives for other things, sack all the ticket staff and barrier systems. Lose half the bureaucracy and it might be curiously viable? And available to all so they can choose whether to use or drive/ cyce/walk.

 

[flecc]

Sometimes the radical in me thinks we should just make great public transport free. Amazing green effect as millions take advantage and clear the roads. So you can cut all the other expensive green incentives for other things, sack all the ticket staff and barrier systems. Lose half the bureaucracy and it might be curiously viable? And available to all so they can choose whether to use or drive/ cyce/walk.

It's worked for the youngsters. Since it's been free in London for up to 16s and up to 18s in full time education, they've made very full use of public transport. It's a subjective judgement, but I think there's less of them rushing into mopeds at the first opportunity, so perhaps public transport use is being instilled as a habit as was hoped when the free travel was introduced.
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[simonbarnett]

It's worked for the youngsters. Since it's been free in London for up to 16s and up to 18s in full time education, they've made very full use of public transport. It's a subjective judgement, but I think there's less of them rushing into mopeds at the first opportunity, so perhaps public transport use is being instilled as a habit as was hoped when the free travel was introduced.
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Indeed though there's probably another army of wasters checking 16-18 year olds' application forms, etc. And you can't get rid of the ticket staff, Oyster card administrators, barrier systems and staff unless everyone travels free. Probably a big subsidy even after the savings, but think of the green benefits/booost for commuters and Londoners etc.

 

[flecc]

I agree Simon, making free public transport universal would be a good move with many benefits, but I think it would be probably be politically unacceptable, redolent of communism.

The large tax hike to pay for it would certainly be unpopular amongst the Jeremy Clarksons of this world.
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