Are Amazon and E-Bay too big for HMRC to tackle.

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Hammond is tinkering with our tax and pensions to try to get a bit more tax take but ignores the tax and vat fraud sheltered within Amazon and E-Bay.
We are all complicit within this fraud,I am sure all of us who bought a cheap part off E-Bay are amazed how that low value item came delivered free and mostly without an invoice. But we don't care it's cheap.
But the knock on effect of the growth of illegal trade within these monster on-line sellers is badly hurting honest UK traders. Originally this fraud only affected small traders but it's now hitting our big high street stores,there is almost nothing you can't buy off Amazon.
I have read that if HMRC collected the correct vat and tax from Amazon and E-Bay then the tax take would annually be £29 billion,that would sort out the NHS and Social Care. But HMRC and Hammond seem frightened to tackle these big businesses.
If a trader tries to tackle E-Bay direct about the vat fraud then E-Bay get very nasty to the trader,you soon back off. Amazon have a punishment for their traders if HMRC report vat fraudulent traders....the punishment is as follows...
1.Allow them to trade for 30 days
2. Allow them to keep their stock
3.Allow them to keep their cash
4. Let them transfer to a new business keeping their rankings
5. Insist they register for UK vat,that actually helps the trader,now he can reclaim the vat,there doesn't seem any compulsion to charge it or hand it to the revenue.
Some punishment!
Amazon data systems are now the home servers for all HMRC data,they are paid £700 million by HMRC.

The free postage is easy,buy a sheet of 'postage paid' labels from Royal Mail,put the sheet on a photostat,cut them up and stick on all small items. Royal Mail is stupid not to do anything about the fraud.

We currently live in a country where our government are either stupid or impotent,Brexit was probably a distraction away from a government that are just not up to the job,unfortunately they are also not up to Brexit.
KudosDave
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tillson and flecc

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
Yes, they are too big, but the true underlying issue is that they are US companies and the UK has pet poodle status in the USA.

Just like with dogs, they treat us kindly so long as we obey their commands.
.
 

SHAN

De-registered
Oct 13, 2017
308
500
64
Scotland
Don't know about eBay, but Amazon employ 24,000 + and the associated employment (delivery companies etc) must be huge as well. So Amazon fall into the same category as RBS who were too big to fail, Amazon are too big to upset. The government/HMRC will be mindful of this because they will be shoveling in Tax/national insurance from the employees, which is a far better alternative to handing out benefits, should Amazon get upset enough to pack up and go. Most Daily Spode readers who "recoil" at the thought of these two companies not paying their share will be well equipped for Christmas through their website. Both (amazon and ebay) were apparently in meetings with HMRC regarding the collection of VAT post Brexit. Plan being that when ordering out with the UK, the vat element will be added, and deduced as part of the transaction, and paid direct to the "chancellor". i.e. I buy something from Germany for £100, Amazon adds on the £20 VAT and I pay £120, German seller gets their £100, and the government gets paid their £20 by Amazon. Sounds simple. (In theory).
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Don't know about eBay, but Amazon employ 24,000 + and the associated employment (delivery companies etc) must be huge as well. So Amazon fall into the same category as RBS who were too big to fail, Amazon are too big to upset. The government/HMRC will be mindful of this because they will be shoveling in Tax/national insurance from the employees, which is a far better alternative to handing out benefits, should Amazon get upset enough to pack up and go. Most Daily Spode readers who "recoil" at the thought of these two companies not paying their share will be well equipped for Christmas through their website. Both (amazon and ebay) were apparently in meetings with HMRC regarding the collection of VAT post Brexit. Plan being that when ordering out with the UK, the vat element will be added, and deduced as part of the transaction, and paid direct to the "chancellor". i.e. I buy something from Germany for £100, Amazon adds on the £20 VAT and I pay £120, German seller gets their £100, and the government gets paid their £20 by Amazon. Sounds simple. (In theory).
See 'Meg Hillier' head of the public accounts committee re VAT evasion E-Bay and Amazon. She did her own research buying product and was never charged the vat,HMRC were given new powers to give the vat bill to the on line sellers as well as the traders,but HMRC are reluctant to do so.
Initially the traders were mainly Chinese,I respect that Mr Lee Kong of a dodgy address in Ningbo is difficult to contact,but his stock in a Amazon fulfilment warehouse in the UK is easy to find. But many dishonest UK traders have now realised that vat fraud online is ignored by HMRC so its a crime that the revenue does nothing about,its currently a risk free crime.
KudosDave
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,785
The European Union
Ah! Death and taxes...

The Trump tax cut is a wonderful example of what is going on in the world. Tax cuts for everyone... earning more than $100k. Corporate rate down to 20% yet small business rate stays at 25%.

There is your social justice clearly printed out, the less well off are on this earth to pay for the well off.
 
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
15,973
6,292

PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
Don't know about eBay, but Amazon employ 24,000 + and the associated employment (delivery companies etc) must be huge as well. So Amazon fall into the same category as RBS who were too big to fail, Amazon are too big to upset. The government/HMRC will be mindful of this because they will be shoveling in Tax/national insurance from the employees, which is a far better alternative to handing out benefits, should Amazon get upset enough to pack up and go. Most Daily Spode readers who "recoil" at the thought of these two companies not paying their share will be well equipped for Christmas through their website. Both (amazon and ebay) were apparently in meetings with HMRC regarding the collection of VAT post Brexit. Plan being that when ordering out with the UK, the vat element will be added, and deduced as part of the transaction, and paid direct to the "chancellor". i.e. I buy something from Germany for £100, Amazon adds on the £20 VAT and I pay £120, German seller gets their £100, and the government gets paid their £20 by Amazon. Sounds simple. (In theory).
There would seem to be some progress on this. I for one am being encouraged to register for a Company Account and that would seem to be the natural precursor for a tax collection regime?
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,785
The European Union
You think it should be the other way round then - how does that work?
No I think it should be equal, like it works in Sweden for example.
 

PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
No I think it should be equal, like it works in Sweden for example.
Agree that things aren't right when it comes to taxation. People paying it! In fact the current expose on BBC is rather educational in this respect. This is where the thought should be, actual rates are relatively minor issues and one can certainly argue that far more money ends up in the exchequer's pocket when you encourage the higher tax payers. The big money is where we find avoidance and such, currently that is way beyond individual Governments to correct, including Mr Trump. The US will be missing out on many more Billions than even we are.
 
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Reactions: flecc

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
It is big and small companies within Amazon and E-Bay that are failing to charge the vat. Amazon and E-Bay collect 10% on everything sold in their marketplaces,the reason why they allow the vat evasion is that the products would not be so competitive if vat was correctly charged,this would allow honest companies to compete and thus Amazon and E-Bay would collect less commission.
Amazon and E-Bay collect these commission revenue and transfer it to low tax domains.
Just don't know why HMRC allow this massive vat and tax fraud.
KudosDave
 

danielrlee

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 27, 2012
1,348
688
Westbury, Wiltshire
torquetech.co.uk
EBay UK have been registered in the UK since August 2017 and now charge (and pass on to the treasury) 20% VAT on all fees.

I'm not sure whether the change was as a result of wider political pressure, or strategic maneuvering with an eye on future Brexit.
 

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