Are Cyclotricity 500W kits really road legal?

Andrew Hewitt

Just Joined
Apr 4, 2017
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Hi all,

Bit nervous posting for first time as new to form (and relatively new to ebikes!). I'm looking for an eKit and came across the Cyclotricity kit (description at foot of this message).

From their description I can switch up and down power so it can be used on and off road using their kit. But reading up on the law, I don't think it is actually road legal as:
- the motor is more than 250W
- the controller is more than 250W
- the motor is capable of speeds of more than 15mph and the user can easily unlock the speed restriction using the screen

My interpretation of the law is that if the customer can manually change the speed themselves without having to go back to the manufacturer for an alteration then it cannot be classified as road legal.

Isn't this therefore deceptive and irresponsible of Cyclotricity to sell these kits when any customer using them stands to get into serious legal trouble if they get implicated in an accident with one of these kits when they have been told that it is totally road legal? I don't want to spend a lot of money only to get a fine and potentially more trouble. Looking for some advice please!

Thanks

Andy

Cyclotricity kit listing description:
"Original CycloTricity eKit The UK/EU regulations dictate that a kit must not exceed the rated power of 250W to be road-legal. Which is not great news for the thrill-seekers, power hungry among us who want to have the occasional fun off-road yet still be able to ride sensibly and legally on-road. A purchase of the common high-powered kit will come with its legal implications. On the other hand, the practicality of a road-legal kit means giving up the fun one could have off-road. So which kit do you choose? With these new rear wheel kits, CycloTricity had set out to resolve this very dilemma for its customers. We have developed a unique system that allows the user to swap between two modes depending on whether you are on-road or off-road, allowing you to unlock the full power where it is safe and legal to do so. This dual-mode system is embedded in the LCD Dashboard(this is a required extra which can be purchased for £79.99) which can unlock the full power of the kit using a special code (this can be obtained upon signing the de-restriction terms of use). Please note that this is not the same as a de-restriction switch which has been questionable from a legal standpoint. "
 

Andy Bluenoes

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2016
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They arent legal. Cyclotricity will ask you to sign a disclaimer before giving you information on how to derestrict.
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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wooshbikes.co.uk
the problem is, your bike becomes illegal after you derestrict. That's why vendors like myself try to build bikes that people are comfortable pedaling at 20mph and more so there is no need to derestrict in the first place.
That's why a big, heavy unsprung lump of iron either in front or at the rear wheel is a no no.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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This dual-mode system is embedded in the LCD Dashboard. - - - - - - - - - Please note that this is not the same as a de-restriction switch which has been questionable from a legal standpoint.
There seems to be a distinction on this point. The DfT have emphatically said that an off-road switch is definitely illegal.

However there are many e-bikes from major manufacturers which can have their maximum assist speed raised by a setting in the LCD control. This ability seems to have been ignored by the authorities since they have usually been laboratory tested and approved for conformity with EN15194 standards.

Of course in derestricted mode the law is broken, regardless of any certification or whether the legal assist speed is exceeded.
.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Take a look at the bikes for sale here, and you wonder how they get away with it ;)

https://www.thesmallgreenroom.com/
It's because they aren't doing anything illegal, there is no law against selling e-bikes that don't conform to the law. It's similar to the position with mini-motos, they can never be legally used in public but can freely be sold.

The offence is only in the usage, riding an illegal vehicle on public roads or in a public place.
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Andy Bluenoes

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2016
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It's because they aren't doing anything illegal, there is no law against selling e-bikes that don't conform to the law. It's similar to the position with mini-motos, they can never be legally used but can freely be sold.

The offence is only in the usage, riding an illegal vehicle on public roads or in a public place.
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I know, I was more getting at the way they advertise them as restrictable ;)
 
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Andy Bluenoes

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2016
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And sorry for hijacking the thread, but the vodoo bantu looks like it could be a good commuter
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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Every ebike can be derestricted one way or another. that doesn't make them illegal. Some can be done by settings in the LCD. Most people wouldn't know how to do it. If the police stop you and ask if you know how to derestrict your bike, what are you going to tell them?

The rules are that the motor must be no more than 250w rating, so a 500w motor or a 100w one can't be legal. there's no restriction on the controller. 48v is as high as you can go, so 60v bikes are out.
 
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LeighPing

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 27, 2016
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Technically they are ebikes, i.e. electric powered bikes.

They aren't electric assist bikes, i.e. pedelecs.

EAPC is the bureaucracy free legal form, Electric Assist Pedal Cycles. We are wrong when we refer to our legal pedelecs as e-bikes, creating the confusion.
Actually, I meant that their display pics seem to be regular mountain bikes. Do they not? :)

Display pics.jpg
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Actually, I meant that their display pics seem to be regular mountain bikes. Do they not? :)
Yes, possibly to deliberately confuse? Click the Shop tab, then High Performance ebikes though, scroll down and the High Performance ebikes leave no confusion, small motorbikes with pedals.

Here's the direct link.
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D

Deleted member 4366

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You have to think about how you could be prosecuted for using an over-powered bike. The CPS would have to present clear evidence that your motor was rated at more than 250w. That would be easy if it's stamped into the motor casing, but without any markings, it would be very difficult. They can't go by the size or shape because there's some very big 200w motors and there can be lots of different versions of a motor sharing the same castings.

For a successful prosecution of using an illegal bike, they would have to prove that either it can go over 27.5 km/h or the motor is marked more than 250w. Both of those are easy to determine and pretty conclusive.

I don't think that people with a 500w/1000w Cyclotricity have anything to worry about as long as their bike is limited to 25km/h and there's no markings on the motor. All you need to do after that is practice the phrase, "It's a 250w motor". In this country, we're still innocent until proved guilty, so if anybody asks you to prove that it's a 250w motor, just say your practised phrase, "It's a 250w motor" and add, "Where's you evidence that it isn't?". In reply to, "It's the same as this 1000w one on Ebay, you can say, "Maybe it does, but his is the 250w version, so it's different".

Having said all that, it doesn't make sense to buy a 1000w kit and restrict it to 25 km/h because it'll run very inefficiently and not produce any more output power than a good 250w kit.

I built a bike with one of those kits (EBC) recently. Up to 15 mph, it was very similar to an Oxygen S-cross, which I tested at the same time. The power was smooth and quiet, just like the Oxygen. You only really felt the difference at about 18 mph, when it started to get into its stride. It had good power round about 25 mph, and went on to about 30 mph. The big difference between the two was the weight, but you only felt that when lifting the bikes. Range of the Oxygen would be about double when pedalling with the same effort.
 
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aardvark5

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
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Both of my restricted 250w Cyclotricity converted bikes get to 18 mph before the motor cuts out, there's no need to derestrict. When I first had the Stealth I did derestrict but I soon put it back. In another thread I mentioned I dabbled with the 500 watt rear kit and because of the heavy motor and being virtually impossible to cycle without electric I went back to 250 watt restricted. It would be great to have 30 mph on the throttle for some of those 'special moments' but I'd probably end up under a lorry.
 
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Andrew Hewitt

Just Joined
Apr 4, 2017
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Thanks all for the responses, this is a great community! The general message I'm getting is these kits are NOT road legal, but Cyclotricity is saying they are (and then asking people to sign a disclaimer after purchase). So obviously I'll go for one from someone else as I don't want it to be ambiguous if my bike is legal or not.

Shouldn't someone do something about this dodgy advertising? There must be lots of people out there with illegal bikes that they think are legal (and who don't have d8veh's handy phrases memorised!!).

Can anyone recommend a good retailer for a kit? Dillenger seem a bit over priced. I was thinking maybe electric bike conversion or Panda eBikes?
 

jonathan75

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2013
794
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Hertfordshire
I don't think that people with a 500w/1000w Cyclotricity have anything to worry about as long as their bike is limited to 25km/h and there's no markings on the motor. All you need to do after that is practice the phrase, "It's a 250w motor". In this country, we're still innocent until proved guilty, so if anybody asks you to prove that it's a 250w motor, just say your practised phrase, "It's a 250w motor" and add, "Where's you evidence that it isn't?".
I agree if it's a 25kph bike it's not likely to be a problem, because UK police don't have the resources or inclination to investigate anything like that unless someone's really caused/causing trouble like injuring someone else. But if there were trouble then by lying he'd be exposing himself to much more serious charges of attempting to pervert the course of justice. The question of whether someone knew he had an illegal bike is a question of fact which a judge or a jury is entitled to make a finding on, whether or not they have evidence. The fact the cyclist said there were somehow no records of his electronic purchase, no receipt in his email inbox, no way of tracing who he bought it from, would tend to count against him, rather than for him, because it's unlikely.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is not a rule of law but simply an instruction for the jury, that they must remember that it's for the prosecution to prove their case beyond reasonable doubt: the jury (or magistrate/district judge) is still free to make a finding of fact that someone did know they were breaking the law. The fact the motor was 500w and there was a serious injury, could prompt the CPS to decide there was a >50% of conviction, the criteria for proceeding with a prosecution.
 

jonathan75

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2013
794
213
Hertfordshire
All you need to do after that is practice the phrase, "It's a 250w motor".
Sorry to be a pedant - you've been wonderful in giving me advice in the past, so I hope you won't hold this against me in the future for pointing out the position in law:

45 Encouraging or assisting an offence believing it will be committed

A person commits an offence if—

(a) he does an act capable of encouraging or assisting the commission of an offence; and

(b) he believes—

(i) that the offence will be committed; and

(ii) that his act will encourage or assist its commission.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/inchoate_offences/#a01
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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Your interp
Sorry to be a pedant - you've been wonderful in giving me advice in the past, so I hope you won't hold this against me in the future for pointing out the position in law:

45 Encouraging or assisting an offence believing it will be committed

A person commits an offence if—

(a) he does an act capable of encouraging or assisting the commission of an offence; and

(b) he believes—

(i) that the offence will be committed; and

(ii) that his act will encourage or assist its commission.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/inchoate_offences/#a01
All that's completely irrelevant to me. How do you kill someone? You buy a gun, load it, point it at the victim and pull the trigger. Have I encouraged anybody to kill anyone? Am I an accessory to murder?