Battery types l-ion vs li-nmc

[Domm]

Hi, does anyone know the difference (if any) between the l-ion batteries eg those sold by eclipse and the li-nmc sold by bms battery?

I was looking at getting a 48v 750w bbs02 and whatever amp/hr was enough for a 20mile round trip on hills without getting sweaty (ie little pedaling up the hills!).

P.S. On Electric Bike blog Karl recommends a 52V battery (like a shark pack from US based luna cycles) but no one in UK seems to do them. Does anyone know a reliable UK supplier of 52V?

Thanks!

 

[Nealh]

NMC slightly different chemistry using Nickel Manganese Cobalt, higher density able to give more amps, better voltage performance and extended charge cycles circa 2k. But also still lighter then Phospate lifepo4. Being used in EV 's and may well eventually be the choice over li-on in the future and used in pouch and cylindrical form. Nmc batteries are about the most stable of the Lithium chems used.

Batteries have a few prefixs; Li- NiMnCo , NMC, NCM.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You can get batteries and a BBSxx from Em3ev.com. They call it 50v, but it's 14S, which others call 52V. Their kits are all set up and ready to go - probably the best BBSxx kits you can get. Don't worry that they're not UK. They're a very reliable supplier and the stuff comes pretty quickly.

 

[Domm]

You can get batteries and a BBSxx from Em3ev.com. They call it 50v, but it's 14S, which others call 52V. Their kits are all set up and ready to go - probably the best BBSxx kits you can get. Don't worry that they're not UK. They're a very reliable supplier and the stuff comes pretty quickly.

Yes that is tempting, but isn't there some problem with batteries from abroad?

What makes their BBSxx kits special or different from those for example from eclipse in UK? Thanks!

 

[Woosh]

Hi, does anyone know the difference (if any) between the l-ion batteries eg those sold by eclipse and the li-nmc sold by bms battery?

batteries are made from cells as you well know, I sell batteries made with Samsung 29E and Panasonic 18650PF and Panasonic 18650B. All three are 18650 cells and of Lithium ion types but their chemistry is slightly different.What makes things more confusing is that resellers call them by different names.
So I suggest we all use the cell model (INR18650-29E, NCR18650PF, NCR18650B etc) for identification instead of acronyms like LMO, NMC, NCA, NCO, LCO etc. Nobody can remember their exact chemistry.
We pay for capacity, does it really matter if the cell is NMC or NCA or XYZ?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes that is tempting, but isn't there some problem with batteries from abroad?

What makes their BBSxx kits special or different from those for example from eclipse in UK? Thanks!

14S batteries instead of 13S. You're guaranteed the latest version of the motor. The controllers are properly pre-programmed. The quality of the battery construction is superb. You get full technical support and backup from a guy that knows just about everything about them.

 

[Nealh]

The Panasonic/Sanyo PF are good cells much better then the Samsung 29E and Panasonic b cell which are really only a 5/7 amp cell max.
Along with the PF there are also other very good cells the Sanyo GA, Samsung 30Q, LG HG2, MH1, MJ1 & Sony VTC6, all of these are 10/15/20a or better so will run so much cooler reducing IR and sag. It is the heat that kills the battery capacity and gives high IR rates that induces big voltage sags.

 

[Woosh]

long with the PF there are also other very good cells the Sanyo GA, Samsung 30Q, LG HG2, MH1, MJ1 & Sony VTC6, all of these are 10/15/20a or better so will run so much cooler reducing IR and sag.

I agree. The choice is usually down to your power requirements.
Between high 10A-20A continuous discharge but 3000mAH and high capacity 3,400mAH at 5A, I prefer high capacity and 17.5AH instead of 15AH.
I fit mostly 17A or 18A controllers to my new bikes, the batteries are configured in 10S5P, the preference is to have 25A BMS (5A per cell continuous discharge), plenty of reserve to cover the 17A/18A controllers.
The Big Bears continue to have Samsung 29E and 20A controller.

 

[Nealh]

The 29E is ok as long as the user doesn't use it for more then 15/18a in legal form, as I found out with the GSM used unrestricted and for speeds up to 25mph they just cannot cope with demand of higher discharge with the low 5 - 7 amp rating.
Current 18650 cells have probably been maxed out now at 3000 - 3500mah with some able to cope with 10-15 a loading per cell quite nicely without hitting 70oc these are perfect for a 4-6P build.
Even though a 5P cell build with a 5-7amp discharge rating sounds good having a possible25/35a max constant discharge, drawing top amps consistently even with a 25a bms will see the cells getting very warm, so a 10+ rated 5P cell string with an upper 50a + discharge would be better with the cells running much cooler and nowhere near their upper limit.
As we know its not only speed that requires a good discharge but climbing ability to draw these top amps consistently without the battery having to break in to a sweat.

 

[Woosh]

IMHO, high current drain is only required for CD and DD kits.
Geared hub motors rarely need more than 20A.