Brexit, for once some facts.

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,785
The European Union
Surely, this needs to be allowed to pan out? There is a lot at stake and certainly, on the surface, there does appear to be a case of 'unfair' financial support for Bombardier. Boeing/USA and Airbus are far from innocents here and it might be a good thing all round to get this whole thing out in the open, if possible. As you point out Boeing employ 17,000 workers in the country. As for the EU clout bit, what use would a trade war be, certainly not to UKplc.
"Annually Airbus spends around £4 billion with suppliers in the UK, a significant contribution to the UK aerospace industry, which supports around 110,000 high value, highly skilled jobs. "
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Again, not a bad response, but there is a limit to what can prove acceptable to a majority of people. I spend a lot of time in the US, my wife is a US citizen. There is no comparison, the gap between the have's and the have-not's is huge! Gated communities are everywhere. Europe is totally different to the US and the UK even more so. Albeit should the USE ever come into being things might well change. We can be to the EU, as Canada is to the US perhaps?

.. Peter you have referred on a few occasions to ..". The majority of people" , without evidence and I have not pulled you up on it.
What majority do you refer to?
Is it the miniscule deviation that occured on the referendum?,
Or is it the whole hearted response of the houses of commons and lords which did in fact vote and did give a huge majority to Brexit, on the , in my opinion , mistaken belief that they could re visit it unilaterally if the terms were not acceptable to them.
. However that was in a parliament which no longer exists , and the will of the current parliament has not been tested
So which majority do you refer to? The London one, the Scottish one, the Northern Ireland one, or the Sunderland one?
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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however small the winning margin was, it was subjected to parliament's interpretation. As our parliament is still dominated by the conservative party which favours brexit, so the brexiters won the referendum.
what is dishonest is the whip system in parliament.
MPs have defied whips before and will again. I view adherence to a whip structure against ones better judgement as moral cowardice. MPs have presumably taken oathes of office, and are in a privileged position, they have and had a duty to honour them.
 

PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
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Dundee
.. Peter you have referred on a few occasions to ..". The majority of people" , without evidence and I have not pulled you up on it.
What majority do you refer to?
Is it the miniscule deviation that occured on the referendum?,
Or is it the whole hearted response of the houses of commons and lords which did in fact vote and did give a huge majority to Brexit, on the , in my opinion , mistaken belief that they could re visit it unilaterally if the terms were not acceptable to them.
. However that was in a parliament which no longer exists , and the will of the current parliament has not been tested
So which majority do you refer to? The London one, the Scottish one, the Northern Ireland one, or the Sunderland one?
UK one of course. You do sound very similar to Nick Clegg at times and I don't mean to insult you.
 
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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
"Annually Airbus spends around £4 billion with suppliers in the UK, a significant contribution to the UK aerospace industry, which supports around 110,000 high value, highly skilled jobs. "
that must make it a UK company?

Actually that figure was more likely to be worldwide try these

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus

UK workforce more like
Broughton, Flintshire, Wales UK 5,031
Bristol (Filton), England UK 4,642

Toulouse
(Toulouse, Colomiers, Blagnac) France 16,992
Hamburg
(Finkenwerder, Stade, Buxtehude) Germany 13,420
Broughton, Flintshire, Wales UK 5,031
Bristol (Filton), England UK 4,642
Bremen Germany 3,330
Madrid (Getafe, Illescas) Spain 2,484
Saint-Nazaire France 2,387
Nordenham Germany 2,086
Nantes France 1,996
Albert (Méaulte) France 1,288
Varel Germany 1,191
Laupheim Germany 1,116
Cadiz (Puerto Real) Spain 448
Washington, D.C. (Herndon, Ashburn) USA 422
Beijing PRC 150
Wichita USA 320
Mobile, Alabama USA 150
Miami (Miami Springs) USA ?
Seville Spain ?
Moscow Russia ?
Tianjin PRC planning
Harbin PRC 1,000 (opening by end-2010)
Bangalore, Karnataka India 1800
Total 56,966+

(Data as of 31 December 2006)

Appreciate that you said 'supports' which probably includes the wider workforce not just AirBus, no doubt the same for Germany and France?
 
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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
that must make it a UK company?

Actually that figure was more likely to be worldwide try these

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus

UK workforce more like
Broughton, Flintshire, Wales UK 5,031
Bristol (Filton), England UK 4,642

Toulouse
(Toulouse, Colomiers, Blagnac) France 16,992
Hamburg
(Finkenwerder, Stade, Buxtehude) Germany 13,420
Broughton, Flintshire, Wales UK 5,031
Bristol (Filton), England UK 4,642
Bremen Germany 3,330
Madrid (Getafe, Illescas) Spain 2,484
Saint-Nazaire France 2,387
Nordenham Germany 2,086
Nantes France 1,996
Albert (Méaulte) France 1,288
Varel Germany 1,191
Laupheim Germany 1,116
Cadiz (Puerto Real) Spain 448
Washington, D.C. (Herndon, Ashburn) USA 422
Beijing PRC 150
Wichita USA 320
Mobile, Alabama USA 150
Miami (Miami Springs) USA ?
Seville Spain ?
Moscow Russia ?
Tianjin PRC planning
Harbin PRC 1,000 (opening by end-2010)
Bangalore, Karnataka India 1800
Total 56,966+

(Data as of 31 December 2006)

Appreciate that you said 'supports' which probably includes the wider workforce not just AirBus, no doubt the same for Germany and France?

Having just been on the Airbus site

http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/airbus-in-uk/

I'll take that earlier lot back, if I can...

http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/airbus-in-uk/
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,608
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UK one of course. You do sound very similar to Nick Clegg at times and I don't mean to insult you.
So you really believe that this miniscule deviation from 50% which a movement of 600,000 out of 36,000,000 voters , and which excluded the 1,200,000 Britons currently living on continental Europe , and who had no opportunity , but a greater likelihood of voting remain, provided a logical reason for this turmoil?
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Having just been on the Airbus site
Having seen the so called beluga aircraft in the flesh as it were, it is a sight for sore eyes.. I laughed out loud the first time I saw it at Nantes. It looks sort of like an ordinary passenger jet, where someone had pumped lots of compressed air into its belly so that it has expanded like a sausage . It can carry full engines, large sections of fuselage and all sorts of stuff in its belly...
http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/airbus-in-uk/

I'll take that earlier lot back, if I can...

http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/airbus-in-uk/
 
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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
So you really believe that this miniscule deviation from 50% which a movement of 600,000 out of 36,000,000 voters , and which excluded the 1,200,000 Britons currently living on continental Europe , and who had no opportunity , but a greater likelihood of voting remain, provided a logical reason for this turmoil?
You are indeed sounding like Nick Clegg. I really do not think that the UK population ever thought that when we joined the EU it was to become a complete integral part of the EU. That was probably the start of the lie?
, and which excluded the 1,200,000 Britons currently living on continental Europe , and who had no opportunity , but a greater likelihood of voting remain, provided a logical reason for this turmoil?
There seems to be a habit of this with the INDYRef1 and no doubt INDYRef2 whenever it comes. None of the Exiles where allowed to vote and neither was my wife come to that.
 
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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
It's well named for sure.

Not sure why but I was referring to
"Having just been on the Airbus site
Having seen the so called beluga aircraft in the flesh as it were, it is a sight for sore eyes.. I laughed out loud the first time I saw it at Nantes. It looks sort of like an ordinary passenger jet, where someone had pumped lots of compressed air into its belly so that it has expanded like a sausage . It can carry full engines, large sections of fuselage and all sorts of stuff in its belly...
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,785
The European Union
that must make it a UK company?

Actually that figure was more likely to be worldwide try these

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus

UK workforce more like
Broughton, Flintshire, Wales UK 5,031
Bristol (Filton), England UK 4,642

Toulouse
(Toulouse, Colomiers, Blagnac) France 16,992
Hamburg
(Finkenwerder, Stade, Buxtehude) Germany 13,420
Broughton, Flintshire, Wales UK 5,031
Bristol (Filton), England UK 4,642
Bremen Germany 3,330
Madrid (Getafe, Illescas) Spain 2,484
Saint-Nazaire France 2,387
Nordenham Germany 2,086
Nantes France 1,996
Albert (Méaulte) France 1,288
Varel Germany 1,191
Laupheim Germany 1,116
Cadiz (Puerto Real) Spain 448
Washington, D.C. (Herndon, Ashburn) USA 422
Beijing PRC 150
Wichita USA 320
Mobile, Alabama USA 150
Miami (Miami Springs) USA ?
Seville Spain ?
Moscow Russia ?
Tianjin PRC planning
Harbin PRC 1,000 (opening by end-2010)
Bangalore, Karnataka India 1800
Total 56,966+

(Data as of 31 December 2006)

Appreciate that you said 'supports' which probably includes the wider workforce not just AirBus, no doubt the same for Germany and France?
The UK Airbus workforce is about 10,000, when you factor in the sub-contractors or companies providing sub assemblies it is that number. The UK has a large aerospace industry, remember the Concorde?
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,407
16,387
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I view adherence to a whip structure against ones better judgement as moral cowardice. .
then you and I are nearly in agreement.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
It may seem a little odd that 'The Thunderer' should come out with something resembling a criticism of the tory government but I was tickled by the first response to the article.......I think it might be made-up:D



Graeme Park Iffint it not got no pitchers in it, then wese Brexiters aint intersted, is we? We get the troof from the Sun and the Daily Mail, don't not need no puffy poncy Times to pull the wool over our eyes.. Ruddy remoaners!!

Ridiculous? Not at all.....the same verbal diarrhoea has been prevalent recently in this thread from the tory, pro-'Brexit' element, albeit with better spelling.

Tom
 
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Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Surely, this needs to be allowed to pan out? There is a lot at stake and certainly, on the surface, there does appear to be a case of 'unfair' financial support for Bombardier. Boeing/USA and Airbus are far from innocents here and it might be a good thing all round to get this whole thing out in the open, if possible. As you point out Boeing employ 17,000 workers in the country. As for the EU clout bit, what use would a trade war be, certainly not to UKplc.
Nobody would welcome a trade war,but Trump clearly started this one,I am sure if you were an employee in Bombardier,N.I remand,you would want our government to respond positively and make Trump/Boeing think twice,300% on every Boeing into the EU,would make Trump think twice.
But what do the UK do...object strongly,yeh !!!!!
So much for Trump giving the UK a 'strong trade deal'.
KudosDave
 
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