Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

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High unemployment is a direct result of one size does not fit all. The 1998 Stability and Growth Pact is the source of troubles. Just imagine China is subjected to the same kind of policy, she would not have been able to lift hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty. In the EU, the stability pact coupled with the Euro cause high level of unemployment in the Southern eurozone countries.
We have been working very well with the EU economically and the high level of EU immigration into the UK is a direct consequence of our more flexible economy.
There is another reason... The UK speaks English... Or at least something approximating to English. If there is a common second language on a world wide basis and certainly on a European basis it is English..
 

PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
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Dundee
A long way off topic but I honestly believe George Galloway is to be commended for his honest criticism of the Murdoch propaganda organisation in this interview.

If only some of our media stars in the UK were as honest and forthright as Galloway!


Tom
Now we know for sure who else is a headline grabber. To suggest George G as honest would have many fae Dundee, rolling on the floor. I mean the ones fae Lochee where he claims to have grown up in a slum. Perhaps he should have done, but he certainly didn't and is alleged to have light fingers by some in the Labour Party.
 
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PeterL

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Dundee
Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what you consider is relevant? I just get the feeling that you are so self-absorbed and preoccupied with expanding your personal wealth, particularly after the unnecessary plug for your book, that you have no compassion for your fellow man - is life solely about the survival of the fittest in your little bubble?

Such self-aggrandisement is usually the province of politicians - perhaps you missed your vocation.

Tom
What on earth are you twittering on about now - who mentioned a book? I get the impression, on here, that you are just a twisted old man. Hopefully, not outside in the real world somebody might trip over you and do themselves harm.
 

PeterL

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None of which affected my point, that combining the pound into the euro would have resulted in a very much stronger euro.
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We'll never know of course - which has this in the 'Fake News' category? Would seem unlikely though with most commentators suggesting that for whatever reason the fact that we didn't join the Euro was a good thing?
 

oldgroaner

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What on earth are you twittering on about now - who mentioned a book? I get the impression, on here, that you are just a twisted old man. Hopefully, not outside in the real world somebody might trip over you and do themselves harm.
I'm sure Oldtom will feel mortally wounded, he hates being savaged by dead sheep

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
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Brexit is part of it, I'm not saying its the sole cause, I'm not that naive.

We're still growing and taking market share, of what is clearly a decreasing market, but we're having to be aggressive to do that, and that's included massively cutting our margin to help absorb the cost of the declining £. So our end consumer prices are more competitive. For example our margin on eBikes is 1/2 what it was 2 years ago! That's not an easy cut for any business to make, but we're having to do it.

We've done this because we're small and our overheads are lower, so we can be lean.

But this has knock on effects, no investment, less marketing, plans for more staff have been put on hold, etc etc. All this impacts on other business and people who supply us.
I understand that, I've been in the print business for more than a few years and have watched prices tumble year on year. It used to be that we had hundreds of small print shops making a reasonable margin 70% thereabouts. Then along came automation, removed the traditional skills, that was swiftly followed by white van man and Amazon who between then made it possible to move a box, of paper, from one end of the UK to the other overnight for less than a fiver. Most print is done a large factories now - it was painful. Print is a bit different in that there are high capital costs which is probably not the case, so much, in your business?
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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We'll never know of course - which has this in the 'Fake News' category? Would seem unlikely though with most commentators suggesting that for whatever reason the fact that we didn't join the Euro was a good thing?
Yet again, not the point I made, which was that combining the pound into the euro when the oppportunity arose would have resulted in a stronger euro. That would have been inevitable.

There's no doubt that the UK not joining the euro undermined the euro's status, thus weakening it.
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PeterL

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Dundee
Yet again, not the point I made, which was that combining the pound into the euro when the oppportunity arose would have resulted in a stronger euro. That would have been inevitable.

There's no doubt that the UK not joining the euro undermined the euro's status, thus weakening it.
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Try this (Huffington Post) it seems to encapsulate just about every other commentary I've read. In one sense I guess you are right to say that had the pound joined the Euro would have been stronger but, that doesn't mean the outcome would have been any different.

Should Britain Have Joined the Euro?
It’s been over ten years since the UK failed Gordon Brown’s five economic tests for adopting the Euro and the whole idea lost momentum. Now when politicians talk of the EU it’s about whether the country will remain a part of it or withdraw. If the Tories win outright come May, we’ll have a referendum on our hands. But were we right to pass on joining the single currency?

We should look to the biggest economic of recent events to find our answer. The 2008 crash and following recession is still shaping the economic situation across Europe. The Euro is struggling against the sterling, so does that mean we made the right choice?

The big issue with joining the single currency isn’t just that we’ll no longer have the pound, but that we lose control over own on fiscal policy. This isn’t unusual of course, it’s essentially what happens on a country to country basis. Kent and Yorkshire share the same currency and that’s controlled by Westminster. Joining the Euro would just mean a larger scale version of this.

Of course, if you were to look at the differing economic situations between the north and south of England, we can start to see a problem. Regions do not all perform in the same way, while their industries can vary wildly. Meanwhile, London tries to choose policies that benefit the country as a whole, but which can disproportionately damage or help on a regional level. This problem could only be exacerbated when applied across a whole continent.

One of the major things we’d lose control over would be our ability to set our own interest rates. Having flexibility over this means you can better fend off unexpected events, like a recession for example. Had we joined the Euro, this decision would have been out of our hands which would have been a disaster.

It’s true that the EU is growing again, so you might think that we would have enjoyed that success, but the recovery is unbalanced. It goes back to the previous point about regions not being all the same. As we can see in the graph below, the economic fortunes of European countries has been a mixed bag.
upload_2017-10-20_17-25-58.png
Germany and France have been the only countries to significantly recover and improve past their 2008 peaks. Portugal, Italy and Spain are about where they started, while Ireland and especially Greece aren’t even close. The UK has just about passed their 2008 levels.

What does this tell us? It tells us that Europe saw mixed fortunes and that while Germany may have done well, Greece has not. You might point out that the UK has only just done better than Spain or Portugal, but there is another side to this picture.

The economic strife that hit Spain and Portugal was much worse than in the UK. For example, at one point Spain saw over 26% of its population unemployed. The highest it got in the UK was 8.4%. Our recovery may have not been much faster than our Iberian friends, but the ride was much smoother.

Of course you could point to Germany and suggest that’s what would have happened to us, but that would have unlikely been the case.

Why? Because the UK economy was, and arguably still is, heavily reliant on the financial and housing markets, both of which crashed dramatically - just like in Spain and Greece. That means we would have seen a situation much more similar to theirs, and that would have led to us knocking on the doors of the IMF and ECB for loans as they did.

Had we received these loans we would have seen the UK committing to austerity far beyond what we’ve experienced under the Coalition government along with even less financial sovereignty. By being able to keep our interest rates low and the sterling’s value with it, we were able to keep our manufacturing sector competitive and help alleviate some of our financial burden.

In the end, joining the Euro way back when, might not have been so bad an idea overall. But with hindsight, but it’s clear the right choice was made. For the time being, we can be sure that while our recovery has been tough, it could have been far, far worse. It might not have even happened yet.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Try this (Huffington Post) it seems to encapsulate just about every other commentary I've read. In one sense I guess you are right to say that had the pound joined the Euro would have been stronger but, that doesn't mean the outcome would have been any different.

Should Britain Have Joined the Euro?
It’s been over ten years since the UK failed Gordon Brown’s five economic tests for adopting the Euro and the whole idea lost momentum. Now when politicians talk of the EU it’s about whether the country will remain a part of it or withdraw. If the Tories win outright come May, we’ll have a referendum on our hands. But were we right to pass on joining the single currency?

We should look to the biggest economic of recent events to find our answer. The 2008 crash and following recession is still shaping the economic situation across Europe. The Euro is struggling against the sterling, so does that mean we made the right choice?

The big issue with joining the single currency isn’t just that we’ll no longer have the pound, but that we lose control over own on fiscal policy. This isn’t unusual of course, it’s essentially what happens on a country to country basis. Kent and Yorkshire share the same currency and that’s controlled by Westminster. Joining the Euro would just mean a larger scale version of this.

Of course, if you were to look at the differing economic situations between the north and south of England, we can start to see a problem. Regions do not all perform in the same way, while their industries can vary wildly. Meanwhile, London tries to choose policies that benefit the country as a whole, but which can disproportionately damage or help on a regional level. This problem could only be exacerbated when applied across a whole continent.

One of the major things we’d lose control over would be our ability to set our own interest rates. Having flexibility over this means you can better fend off unexpected events, like a recession for example. Had we joined the Euro, this decision would have been out of our hands which would have been a disaster.

It’s true that the EU is growing again, so you might think that we would have enjoyed that success, but the recovery is unbalanced. It goes back to the previous point about regions not being all the same. As we can see in the graph below, the economic fortunes of European countries has been a mixed bag.
View attachment 21780
Germany and France have been the only countries to significantly recover and improve past their 2008 peaks. Portugal, Italy and Spain are about where they started, while Ireland and especially Greece aren’t even close. The UK has just about passed their 2008 levels.

What does this tell us? It tells us that Europe saw mixed fortunes and that while Germany may have done well, Greece has not. You might point out that the UK has only just done better than Spain or Portugal, but there is another side to this picture.

The economic strife that hit Spain and Portugal was much worse than in the UK. For example, at one point Spain saw over 26% of its population unemployed. The highest it got in the UK was 8.4%. Our recovery may have not been much faster than our Iberian friends, but the ride was much smoother.

Of course you could point to Germany and suggest that’s what would have happened to us, but that would have unlikely been the case.

Why? Because the UK economy was, and arguably still is, heavily reliant on the financial and housing markets, both of which crashed dramatically - just like in Spain and Greece. That means we would have seen a situation much more similar to theirs, and that would have led to us knocking on the doors of the IMF and ECB for loans as they did.

Had we received these loans we would have seen the UK committing to austerity far beyond what we’ve experienced under the Coalition government along with even less financial sovereignty. By being able to keep our interest rates low and the sterling’s value with it, we were able to keep our manufacturing sector competitive and help alleviate some of our financial burden.

In the end, joining the Euro way back when, might not have been so bad an idea overall. But with hindsight, but it’s clear the right choice was made. For the time being, we can be sure that while our recovery has been tough, it could have been far, far worse. It might not have even happened yet.
I don't know why you bothered to post this, once again an article rendered useless by biased rabbiting on about the weaker, chiefly southern, EU members without a mention of the northern members other than Germany. Just like some in here do.
.
 
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Zlatan

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Its fairly well accepted UK not joining Euro was better for UK..I view it as one of few things Gordon Brown did right. Imagine position we would now be in had we joined, so I understand why flecc sees it as a mistake...perhaps was for EU...not UK.
Flecc is an EU federalist, not just against Brexit but pro USE...which is where we were going..which we never voted on...ever.
 

Danidl

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Oh yes they do hate currencies being combined, the more they are combined the smaller the number of possibilities to manipulate one against another. Never run away with the idea that they only trade opportunities that happen to crop up, they manipulate currencies one against another to create artificial opportunities.

In its own way it's just as bad as the Libor rate fiddling since it distorts the truth about values, but the complexity prevents enough being known to do anything about it.

And of course there's the machine based trading programs taking second by second tiny gains from minute currency movements, the scale of the trades making the outcome worthwhile. Once again a reduction in the number of currencies available reduces the opportunities and gains.
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Hate is an emotion..a human emition. they don't hate . Of course they seek out weakness and attempt to manipulate situations.. just like sharks will circle smaller fry punching them together and then taking turns to feed the concentrated fish...
 
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PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
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Dundee
Don't you remember stating this in your post #21900?



I didn't imagine that you included that remark in your post.

Tom
Perhaps you did imagine it? You are indeed a silly old man. I was quoting directly from this report

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/uk...o-sell-1-million-fewer-bikes-this-year/022040

which was in the previous post, which I was responding to. Had you read it you would have realised rather than make a fool (old) of yourself!

On the back of this, do I assume that all I need to do is throw a list of characters on the page, then simply let you rearrange them to suit (your agenda)?
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Try this then, you get the Netherlands, Luxembourg and France added this time

View attachment 21785

https://reaction.life/brexit-look-like-britain-joined-euro/
Flatliners
Try this then, you get the Netherlands, Luxembourg and France added this time

View attachment 21785

https://reaction.life/brexit-look-like-britain-joined-euro/
Still trying to avoid any real signs of success. There's 28 countries in the EU, not just the very few struggling, often with self inflicted harm not in any way caused by the EU.

I could just as easily select a group of northern members to claim how successful the EU is. But there's no point in my doing that, just as there is no point in you doing the opposite. It doesn't convince anyone.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Hate is an emotion..a human emition. they don't hate . Of course they seek out weakness and attempt to manipulate situations.. just like sharks will circle smaller fry punching them together and then taking turns to feed the concentrated fish...
How many times must I make it clear? I am not commenting on how they normally trade, or the way they feel about that and I'm not disagreeing witn you on that. I am commenting on their active opposition to the reduction in the number of currencies they can trade due to the euro. They hate/dislike/are annoyed by that, choose your own expression, but please don't keep answering something I haven't posted.
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oldgroaner

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My take of this is that the family didn't speak much even if you did come to the same conclusion over the generations?

Can only assume that it was you that broke the mould seeing as you know so little about the appeal and indeed the lifestyle.
Actually Grandfather came back disillusioned after losing all his friends at the Battle of "Oppy Wood" in the First World War, Father went through Dunkirk and fought at Alamein and came back in the remnants of 12 out of 2000 to find his younger Brother had made it back home and lasted Four Hours before dying of his wounds escaping from a Prisoner of War camp..
It actually records that on his Army Tombstone

As Grandfather said to Father when he volunteered at the start of the Second World war, even though he was 43 years old, you're a fool son, there's no joy in it, you'll live like a dog and die like a rat. Father didn't but his younger Brother did.
And for what?
 
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oldgroaner

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Is there a way to have an automatic 'Dislike' attached to every post by an individual? Might save some on here a few keystrokes.
Not necesssary in your case , they aren't to be taken seriously after all.
Its fairly well accepted UK not joining Euro was better for UK..I view it as one of few things Gordon Brown did right. Imagine position we would now be in had we joined, so I understand why flecc sees it as a mistake...perhaps was for EU...not UK.
Flecc is an EU federalist, not just against Brexit but pro USE...which is where we were going..which we never voted on...ever.
But you did manage to vote for Brexit (maybe) and what comes with that as baggage is not going to meet with your approval.
 
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Woosh

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None of which affected my point, that combining the pound into the euro would have resulted in a very much stronger euro.
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the strength of the Euro is exactly what the Southern Eurozone countries cannot afford, they need a weak Euro to create more jobs.
Sooner or later, one of the Southern countries will have to leave the Euro or endures ever higher unemployment rate. That may eventually lead to a smaller Eurozone core. The Eurozone will be the pillar of the US of E if the EU ever becomes a superstate. Nobody can predict the future of the EU when the first country (which may be Greece or Italy) decides to go back to their own currency.
As long as we keep a flexible economy, we'll trade successfully with the EU in whichever form.
 

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