Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Beginning to think all news is fake. Cant rely on any fecker to say things as they are...the fecking lot of them..media, politicians , journalists...
Our " truth" simply depends on whose bull ** you believe. Seems scientists are getting in on act now.
( there should be 4 asterisks)

Half a dozen media outlets watch same game and give different results these days, all fans watched a different game...man of match is media spokesman. ( sorry person)

 

[oldtom]

However confusion abounded when the group representing liberal EU parties put out a statement refuting his claims.
So it was all FAKE NEWS

I'm not entirely clear about this business of 'fake news'......is it different from downright lies? It certainly seems much more serious than 'being economical with the truth'.

I'm glad you're still on-topic OG, raising the latest snippets of news/fake news coming out of the GPO........that's Government Propaganda Office nowadays, rather than the employer of lots of spotty-faced 'yoofs' on red motorcycles, in snazzy uniforms like something from the Hitler youth movement or Oswald Mosley followers.

We are blessed in the UK that we have some independent commentators to offer an alternative slant on all things political and this is one:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/it-took-six-months-and-a-lot-of-work-but-weve-caved-completely-says-david-davis-20171129140020

I think they may have been leaked information from this forum!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

He only succeeded in making himself a laughing stock, and it was his job on the committee not just to laugh and take the money, but stand up for our best interests.
The man was useless as an MEP, worse he damaged our interests badly.

I wonder how Putin would deal with him if he were Russian!

Tom

 

[Woosh]

I'm not entirely clear about this business of 'fake news'......is it different from downright lies? It certainly seems much more serious than 'being economical with the truth'.

Our " truth" simply depends on whose bull ** you believe.

in our brave new world where people spend so much time on the internet, it is not important that the story is true, it's only important whether you believe it or not.

 

[Zlatan]

Some more " fake" news on ITV tonight ??
Donald Tusk apparently now thinks no other plausible explanation other than Russia carried out poisoning in Salisbury, with apparently no more objective evidence.
We,ll have to wait till May to see what effect on voters Corbyn's stance has taken ?
May ( the PM) must have told very convincing lies tonight in Brussels..

And from Independent 20 mins ago faking it..
"EU says 'highly likely' Russia responsible for Salisbury nerve agent attack"

But as we all know on here it wasn't nerve agent and Russia is innocent ...

And Sky getting in on the lies...
By Greg Heffer, Political Reporter

EU leaders have agreed it is "highly likely" that Russia is responsible for the Salisbury nerve agent attack.

Following a working dinner at a Brussels summit on Thursday night, European Council President Donald Tusk revealed the bloc's member states have backed the UK Government's assessment there is "no other plausible explanation" than Moscow's culpability.

He posted on Twitter: "#EUCO agrees with UK government that highly likely Russia is responsible for #SalisburyAttack and that there is no other plausible explanation."

 

[oldgroaner]

I wonder how Putin would deal with him if he were Russian!

Tom

Have him throttled with a Haddock?

 

[oldgroaner]

But as we all know on here it wasn't nerve agent and Russia is innocent ...

You are doing the Fake News for us tonight? our stance was that there is a need to get PROOF, and all the rest is speculation.

At least you are right about one thing Russia is incapable of taking any action as it is after all a Federation not a human individual.

By the way ""no other plausible explanation" is in fact speculation, isn't it? NOT PROOF as it could have been as you pointed out they seem to have also said
""no other plausible explanation" than Moscow's culpability." So it wasn't all of Russia, just the city of Moscow?
Which bit? Putin or the Mafia, or an unnamed individual ?
not very precise as evidence is it? just another bit of speculation.

 

[Zlatan]

You are doing the Fake News for us tonight? our stance was that there is a need to get PROOF, and all the rest is speculation.

At least you are right about one thing Russia is incapable of taking any action as it is after all a Federation not a human individual.

By the way ""no other plausible explanation" is in fact speculation, isn't it? NOT PROOF as it could have been as you pointed out they seem to have also said
""no other plausible explanation" than Moscow's culpability." So it wasn't all of Russia, just the city of Moscow?
Which bit? Putin or the Mafia, or an unnamed individual ?
not very precise as evidence is it? just another bit of speculation.

Keep digging OG, your mates will be along with bigger spades soon..

 

[oldgroaner]

Keep digging OG, your mates will be along with bigger spades soon..

Not digging, just pointing out the reality of the situation, no one is saying Putin MAY not be the guilty Party as you imagine to be the .case.
Simply that we can't PROVE IT.
You are the one who keeps digging and trying to prove we are saying something we are not.

 

[oyster]

Have him throttled with a Haddock?

So Captain Haddock is a Russian agent! You'll be blaming Snowy next.

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Independent
"
UK parties poised to gain data powers to work out how people are likely to vote, despite the Cambridge Analytica scandal
Protests over new legislation that will give politicians ‘information about the political opinions of an individual’
Britain’s political parties are poised to grant themselves special powers to use personal data to find out how people are likely to vote, despite the Cambridge Analytica scandal, The Independent can reveal.

Legislation set to clear Parliament within weeks will allow the profiling of voters to help infer their political opinions, privacy campaigners have warned.

The move comes as controversy has engulfed Cambridge Analytica over its collection of Facebook data, with the aim of using it to profile and target people during election campaigns. Even before the scandal erupted, political parties had faced questions about their use of social media to carry out online campaigning.

Big Brother is watching you....... too much power to Servants makes them Masters...... time a stop was put to this abuse of Privilege, they are there to SERVE and simply following the latest mood trends of the Public (Which as we have seen is subject to manipulation) will only result in Government by media control.

Principled politicians that actually use judgement to Serve the Public (they did once exist) will be merely a memory.
The country will be run by nothing more than "Media Stars"

And let's face it there's as much proof that the machinations of Cambridge Analytica resulted in a win for Brexit in the Referendum as there is for Putin poisoning the couple in Salisbury.
Words like "Highly likely" come to mind, either that or a lot of allegedly smooth operators wasted vast amounts of Money.

 

[oldtom]

We may conjecture all we like about the source of the material used against the Skripals but that is all we can do without proper evidence.

Boris Johnson and Theresa May in particular have spouted their allegations far and wide, even the EU has now decided to withdraw their Russian ambassador, but this was published yesterday and the opinion of learned judges is far removed from that of the known liars in government.

boris-johnson-a-categorical-liar

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

We may conjecture all we like about the source of the material used against the Skripals but that is all we can do without proper evidence.

Boris Johnson and Theresa May in particular have spouted their allegations far and wide, even the EU has now decided to withdraw their Russian ambassador, but this was published yesterday and the opinion of learned judges is far removed from that of the known liars in government.

boris-johnson-a-categorical-liar

Tom

He also pointed this out!
"in late 2016, Iranian scientists set out to study whether novichoks really could be produced from commercially available ingredients. Iran succeeded in synthesising a number of novichoks. Iran did this in full cooperation with the OPCW and immediately reported the results to the OPCW so they could be added to the chemical weapons database."

So much for there being only one source, unless of course te OPCW had the Iranian Scientists SHOT to protect the secret?

An interesting link here
https://archive.is/P4j87

 

[Woosh]

I watched QT last night.
It came as no surprise that a number of young people in the audience defended brexit with gusto.
After two years of inflation since the vote, they still believe that brexit will deliver lower food price.
What is surprising is how they still believe in having cake and eating it. If only they could accept that there is a price to pay for independence.

 

[oldgroaner]

And there's more
"

• 
  
  
  Al J. Venter March 22, 2018 at 09:18
  Not quite correct Ambassador. I was writing about Novichok twenty or so years ago for Jane’s and went on record quite expansively with details about at least one rogue former Soviet scientist who handed over an enormous amount technical information about nerve and other gasses to the Syria. I named him as well as his reasons for doing so (he got on famously with old man Assad and was quite blatantly anti-Semitic). It is no secret that Syria is Iran’s closest ally in the present ongoing civil war (and has been for a long time) It would have been a simple matter to pass some of that detail on to Tehran. Also, the Kremlin being so close to the Iranians, who would know what they gave the mullahs.
  
  I deal with Novichok quite extensively in my latest book, Nuclear Terror due out at the end of the month from Pen & Sword.
  

 

[oldgroaner]

I watched QT last night.
It came as no surprise that a number of young people in the audience defended brexit with gusto.
After two years of inflation since the vote, they still believe that brexit will deliver lower food price.
What is surprising is how they still believe in having cake and eating it.

Conditioning long term has persistent effects hence GIGO

 

[Woosh]

Conditioning long term has persistent effects hence GIGO

they look too young to be 'conditioned'.

 

[oldtom]

After two years of inflation since the vote, they still believe that brexit will deliver lower food price.
What is surprising is how they still believe in having cake and eating it. If only they could accept that there is a price to pay for independence.

They, their parents and their teachers are the product of several decades of government propaganda, some blatant, some subtle, some subliminal but continuous and unrelenting.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

All you need to know about the 'Russia crisis' is probably contained in this link:

http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2018/865-no-spirit-of-liberty-the-salisbury-case-corbyn-and-the-need-for-dissent.html

Tom

 

[flecc]

Following a working dinner at a Brussels summit on Thursday night, European Council President Donald Tusk revealed the bloc's member states have backed the UK Government's assessment there is "no other plausible explanation" than Moscow's culpability.

I think this is political convenience.

Theresa May is arguing for more Brexit concessions which the EU don't want to give, so by agreeing with her on the poisoning issue they hope her Brexit stance might soften in return.

The art of politics.

What they are really saying to Russia behind the scenes is a different matter.
.