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Brexit, for once some facts.

Discussion in 'The Charging Post' started by flecc, May 28, 2016.

  1.  
    oldtom

    oldtom Pedelecer

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    I'm bound to say I think the 'Woosh' position in this interminable discussion is simply ridiculous.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of tender processes, local businesses v foreign competition, and regardless of whether or not HMRC get to grips with illegal trading, eBay, Amazon and the Chinese trading sites are not going to go away.

    Most people are canny enough nowadays to look on the internet before making not only small purchases but also major purchases including cars and homes. Unsurprisingly, internet business, both legal and illegal, has grown massively over recent years and shows no sign of abating.

    It is a sad fact of life that local businesses and small family concerns unavoidably fall victim to this modern trading method but that's no different really from the strategy operated by our major supermarkets and petrol/diesel sellers and that has been the case for a good number of years now.

    The evidence is there to be seen on almost every shopping parade in every town across the UK. Empty shops or short-term occupancy lets to nail bars, tattoo parlours, takeaway food outlets and the like are common everywhere.

    I don't know the answer; I don't even know if there is an answer but I do know that we cannot just close our borders and imagine that the problem created by wider competition will simply go away. Whatever the rules are, we need to be able to compete in the marketplace and if we cannot do that and you want the reason, just look back to what the tories did to our steel, engineering, shipbuilding and construction industries plus all the ancillary feeder concerns which supplied those massive operations. Every other major European government supported their industries financially through the hard times of the late 60s, the 70s and early 80s because they knew exactly how important they were to the future. We sold ours to venture capitalists and now most of the major and essential UK businesses and utilities are foreign-owned. Now that economic folly is coming back to bite us!

    If overseas companies decide to desert our British stars like Rolls Royce, BAE Systems, Lloyd's and the City of London trading houses, and there are viable alternatives, we haven't got much left to trade with and produce income.

    I sincerely hope the Woosh business continues to trade through these tough times and goes from strength to strength but whingeing about the rules, agreed by 28 states, isn't productive.

    Tom
     
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  2.  
    Woosh

    Woosh Trade Member

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    I only want to go back to pre-single market (1/1/1993)
    I had a thriving business before the open border single market invited the Chinese to set up pan-European distribution in the Benelux. Back then, I was selling to the Belelux and Germany. After 1993, I slowly and steadily became their buyer.
    I worked a few years in Cambridge 1989-1992. Back then, Cambridge uni led the world in computing. There were many opportunities, not just flogging Chinese motherboards and Samsung memory chips. There were a lot of us small businesses in the Cambridge Science Park. These small companies needed protection and still do.
    Open border policy is good after when 99% of your competitors have been eliminated. Well, that's the impression I got after talking with my son who works on blockchain technology last Tuesday.
     
    #11642 Woosh, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  3.  
    anotherkiwi

    anotherkiwi Pedelecer

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    15th of December 1993: The delegations of the states participating in the Uruguay Round (GATT) negotiations sign an agreement in Geneva opening way for most extensive liberalisation in history of world trade.

    The writing is on the wall, from that day on we entered the era of globalisation, the multinationals had won the war...
     
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  4.  
    oldgroaner

    oldgroaner Pedelecer

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    Really, so the millions who have benefited from better holidays and all the other benefits are kidding themselves are they?
    And here is the real question, what giant leap of optimistic fantasy makes you think Brexit will make things better for us all?
    What, where, when, How, why?
     
  5.  
    Woosh

    Woosh Trade Member

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    It's their right and common sense, why should you credit the EU with it?

    I reckon brexit will offer better protection to about 5 millions out of 5.2 millions small businesses in the UK. Not a small number of people.
     
  6.  
    D8ve

    D8ve Pedelecer

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    Please come back trex.
     
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  7.  
    KTM Bike Industries UK

    KTM Bike Industries UK Official Trade Member

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    So "you" think 5 million of the UK small businesses will be better after brexit because you think the single market is bad for them.

    Funnily enough the Federation of Small Business, doesn't agree with you, but then again what would they know??

    FSB welcomes pledge on greatest possible access to single market

    “93 per cent of our members export directly to the single market. Our members want to see this bold and ambitious Free Trade Agreement (FTA) so that they can continue to trade and operate within European markets. However, we will push the Government to guarantee whatever transition process is put in place ensures there is no cliff edge or gap in trade.

    “Small employers will welcome the pledge to maintain the UK as a true magnet for international talent. We have pressed the Government hard to guarantee the right to remain for non-UK EU nationals in existing workforces, and no early cut-off date. Any future system must help small firms to easily recruit the right person, for the right job, at the right time.


    https://www.fsb.org.uk/media-centre...ust-be-founded-on-trade-talent-and-transition
     
  8.  
    Danidl

    Danidl Pedelecer

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    Try as one might one cannot eliminate competition. What the EU offers is to eliminate unfair competition between the member states. If Woosh believes that he has been subject to unfair competition he has recourse to the ECJ . The same rules apply to him as to the Dutch company which undercut him. He and his company are are entitled to read the EU tender request s , as did his Dutch competition, but the Dutch read and write in English but does he employ people fluent in French , German or Flemish.
    He has a rightl to f feel sore, but I suspect the object of his ire is misplaced... Where were the orientation courses offered by his local chamber of commerce or department of trade showing how to compete.

    On a linked but separate strand, O Leary has indicated today that he might withdraw Ryanair flights to and from the UK post brexit as it would be outside the ECJ
     
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  9.  
    Woosh

    Woosh Trade Member

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    KTM, it's not contradictory. Their position takes into account brexit.
    The protection for small businesses come from lesser competition from larger EU firms as a result of leaving the EU. Access is fine.
     
  10.  
    oldtom

    oldtom Pedelecer

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    I'm not normally a fan of O'Leary but he is hugely successful at what he does. In this instance, I'm sure he's unlikely to be cutting off his nose to spite his face so I wouldn't want to call his bluff!

    Tom
     
  11.  
    flecc

    flecc Member

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    Stelios Haji-Ioannou would be happy with that. :)
    .
     
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  12.  
    oldgroaner

    oldgroaner Pedelecer

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    You must be joking!

    Because I remember before the EU when you were lucky if the holidays you got were paid for (they usually were not) and health and safety at work non existent, most men working men in the Factory i worked for didn't live to reach retirement due to exposure to Asbestos, silicosis and poisonous fumes.
    Frankly none of these changes would have taken place had we not joined the EU, so don't give me that load of Bull.
    The Company and most others too knew they were killing the workforce and now thanks to Brexit, those times will make a comeback.
    The EU has been trying to redress the situation
    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-467_en.htm

    But the Conservatives want safety, health and environmental standards that impact profit lowered, don't they?
    And Small businesses come and go faster and faster year on year, and that will only get worse if people are poorer.
    If you want an example of what can happen within the UK market look at how Stagecoach have swallowed up most of the other Bus companies, no EU involvement there was there?
    Big business have eaten up smaller ones since the time the notion of trade first began.
    For a small business to feel it cannot compete in a huge market, means one thing.
    You are in the wrong business and cant compete.
     
    #11652 oldgroaner, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  13.  
    Woosh

    Woosh Trade Member

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    the tories won last time because Cameron promised one thing that his opponents did not, the referendum.
    How do you know that the tories will retain power at the next election?
     
  14.  
    oldgroaner

    oldgroaner Pedelecer

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    Because there really are no opposition parties, and lets face it even if there was they would still apply the same policies.
     
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  15.  
    Danidl

    Danidl Pedelecer

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    Well he already flies to more than 77 destinations in Europe excluding the 13 in the UK. , . Currently the UK as a country has individually the greatest number of destinations , so increasing his exposure in Germany, and France Romania would absorb the losses. What he would lose in traffic might be made up in simplicity in his legal department.. I would not have seen it as a bluff.
     
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  16.  
    Woosh

    Woosh Trade Member

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    Mrs May is incredibly lucky until now but I am afraid that nothing will last, her luck and Mr Corbyn's will soon run out.
    Have a little faith in the common sense of our people.
     
  17.  
    oldgroaner

    oldgroaner Pedelecer

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    And then?

    Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
     
  18.  
    oldgroaner

    oldgroaner Pedelecer

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    That went out of the Window when they voted for Cameron even after he was proved to be a liar at the last General election, and then to add insult to injury voted to leave the EU without the slightest notion of what they were doing.
    Common sense, here?
    All pigs fuelled up and ready to fly,
    The British public will be conned by Politicians at the next Election as inevitably as night follows day.
     
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  19.  
    Woosh

    Woosh Trade Member

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    if we crash out without a deal or with a rough deal, then Mrs May's luck will have run out.
    The next government will negotiate better access.
    I agree with Tillson, brexit is a rope to hang the tories with.
    It will cost a little more but still OK in the medium to long term.
     
  20.  
    oldgroaner

    oldgroaner Pedelecer

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    No it won't, we will still not be members of the EU, just an offshore backwater, which may be good enough for you , but not for me thank you.
     

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