Claud Butler Glide 2 v Freego Hawk v Juicy Classic??

[Farleymarley]

Following on from my thread below, unless someone comes up with anything else, these appear to be my three options. Can anyone help me compare them a bit more please as Ive found no real indepth reviews on any of them

The bike is to be bought on the Cycle scheme so I have an absolute maximum of £1000, it will need to be serviced 6 monthly and needs a good guarantee. It needs to be a 17" frame if at all possible or have the ability to move the seat quite a long way (sometimes the battery position prevents this) and it needs to be a step through and hybrid tyres rather than nobbly ones. I cannot cope with a massively heavy bike as I have to be able to manoever it on my own in and out of a shed and up a patio step. I have severe asthma and this is to help me get a bit fitter.

Claud Butler Glide 2
Fors:
From a well respected close bike shop (I have a 'normal' Claud Butler bike from them already, its just my asthma that prevents me using it)
They are going to do something about the price as its normally above £1000
Its a make I know already.
17" frame
Lightweight at 23.5kg with battery
Li-po battery 36v 10ah
Throttle as well as pedal assist
700 wheels which is what I have got on other bike and like them.

Against:
Not tried one, shop doesnt have one in stock
Front hub motor (wouldnt this make the front wheel a bit wobbly when cornering?)
v Brakes
Battery placement on carrier but have got a pannier anyway
Cant find any reviews
Not been out long and has superseded the Glide 1 and Glide 1-36v
Guarantee on battery 12 months
Its white..even though I now live in Cheshire, Im originally from Essex nuff said...

Freego Hawk Step through
Fors:
Local well respected dealer, although not dealt with them before, havent tried one but seen one in the shop. They dont have a demo version.
Its below £1000
36v but Lithiom Ion battery
Throttle and pedal assist
Disc brakes
Normal sort of warranty (if they cant repair it within 5 days then you get a new one, one year warranty)
Comes in Red (am such a girl lol)
Battery placement behind bar rather than carrier which doesnt seem to affect seat hight as much.

Against:
22kg without battery and seems VERY heavy to lift
26" wheels
Build quality is not as neat the welds seems to be very bulky
Quite a chunky bike and an 18" frame which could be a dealbreaker
Never heard of company before, worried about long term issues with bike if company goes out of business.
Cant find many reviews

Juicy Classic
Fors:
A long way below £1000
This bike is more 'me' and I do like the look and the styling (tbh this is what is driving the choice for this in my list)
36v battery Li-po
Battery placement I like.
Has front and rear disc brakes
Can have throttle
24kg although not sure if this is with battery?


Against:
26" wheels
Cant find frame size anywhere
Cant find one to try and cannot get to anywhere to try it. Would have to be an internet order.
Where would I have it serviced/repaired if need be.
Have seen some reports about build quality not great/welds and also issues re repairs.

Can anyone else give me any advice please?

 

[flecc]

Why is a 26" wheel an against factor? It's long been the standard size on utility and general purpose bikes in the UK, so is your objection that it's too large or too small?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

My neighbour just bought a Juicy Classic from the classified section of this forum. That's three ebike owners within sight of each other now, and another neighbour is interested. Anyway, he's not too tall (maybe 5ft 5"), so had to put the seat right down, and now he's happy with the size of it. My guess is that it's a 17" frame. I rode it when the seet was up, and it felt about right and I'm 5ft 10". One thing though, it didn't feel very powerful. It was about the same as a standard Cyclamatic and probably a lot of other 250w bikes. I should say that I'm used to slightly more powerful ones. He asked me if its climbing power could be improved, so I soldered about 1/3 of the shunt, and now it's a lot better. I didn't want to solder further because his battery's quite old and might not like it; however, he's been down and up Ironbridge gorge since and said he's happy with the extra power.

I can't comment on the other two because I haven't ridden one; however, I have a Claude Butler full suspension MTB, but it's nothing special. The frame's well made, but the rest of it is standard cheap components - including the forks.

 

[Farleymarley]

Flecc - re the 26" wheels, 5 years ago I bought a cheap Halfords Mountain bike to muck about with the children on, it had 26" wheels albeit mountain bike ones. Totally the wrong purchase but it was good at the time for riding on the tracks with my boys. However on the road it was like riding through treacle, really awful.

Ive now got a Claud Butler Windermere, a hybrid bike, this has 700c wheels, with which I get a larger smoother ride. However riding this bike to work is now impossible due to my health problems and asthma. Hence thinking that the 700c tyres would give me a the same sort of ride and not the 'riding through treacle' experience should my battery ever run out.

This is what I based my opinion on?

D8veh - Im sorry but I have no idea what soldering the shunt means, when you say powerful, do you mean speed achieved or the fact it didnt give you as much assistance whilst pedalling as you thought it should?

 

[gray198]

Farleymarley
with the 26in wheels you could use a tyre with a lower rolling resistance, but with electric bikes I do not think that the tyres have a large impact on the effort required, when under power. I have a Freego Eagle which has got off road tyres but they are not an issuefor me. One thing about the Freego is that it has an extra large gear to get you home if you do run out of power.

gray

 

[flecc]

Most of the free running is down to the quality and design of the tyres rather than slight differences in wheel size, and many mountain bikes as sold are awful in this respect, riding through treacle being an apt description. For a given tyre type, there's almost no difference between the 26" and 700c wheels, the latter typically around 27.5" with tyre fitted.

Of the last pair of full size e-bikes I owned, the 26" wheel Lafree with Maxxis tyres was far easier running than the 700c Torq with Kenda tyres.

 

[Farleymarley]

So out of those three bikes Flecc, which would you go for?

 

[flecc]

I picked the Juicy Classic since it so closely matched what you required, so that remains my choice. They are all good e-bikes though and there's probably little to choose between them overall.

All things being equal, still the Juicy, but if you feel a local dealer's benefit is too great to ignore, that can reasonably alter the choice. Being satisfied with your choice is very important for happy ownership, and that can come from the bike itself or merely from feeling secure in the knowledge of support being available.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

D8veh - Im sorry but I have no idea what soldering the shunt means, when you say powerful, do you mean speed achieved or the fact it didnt give you as much assistance whilst pedalling as you thought it should?

It''s a little trick to get better climbing power. You open up the controller and add solder to a bit of wire in it, which causes the controller to give more current. It'll invalidate warranty on a new bike, so only recommended if you really need the extra power.

 

[JuicyBike]

Dave, the latest Classics now have variable assist levels, unlike early models which just had one power setting.
So, shouldn't need to get the soldering iron out to get 75% assist (or 25, 50%), (or low - medium - high, eco - standard - sport mode, etc).

 

[JuicyBike]

FM, the frame is 17.5", so should suit, unless you are particularly long in the body.

 

[Farleymarley]

I have just got my friend to agree to take me to 'All about the Bike' at the weekend, will phone them tomorrow to see what test bikes they have.

Thank you for your reply Bob, at least if I can see them all in the flesh/metal lol then it will help no end.

 

[TylerD]

Good luck Farley, whichever one you go for you're going to be riding around with a big smile on your face!

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Farleymarley,

We have a couple of eZee models which you might like to consider for under you £1000 budget, the Sprint Primo eZee Sprint Primo - electric bikes and conversion kits and the Forza EV eZee Sprint Primo - electric bikes and conversion kits.

Both models are available from stock with stepthru frames.

 

[Farleymarley]

Argghghghghgh
You know when you had an idea about something and it gets completely turned upside down?

I went to the dealer again near me today that had the Freego Hawk step through but this time I had a go. I was on the bike, it took several turns of the pedals to get the motor to kick in (only had it on the lowest power) and the motor kicking in was like if you are driving in a car and suddenly your foot presses down sharply on the accelerator and you shoot forward I was heading toward a bend, stopped pedalling to slow down a bit, started pedalling again and when the motor kicked in, it was really quite unnerving as I felt as though I was lurching forward. Not a smooth change whatsoever.

So on a straight bit of road, with some trepidation I took it up to the mid setting and was cycling, the motor kicked in and the difference between the speed I had been going and the speed the motor shot me up to almost instantly was enough to make me want to get off the bike. I felt rather out of control. I didnt even try the throttle, was too scared!

The woman that took me out then said that most bike that have throttles do work in that way, as its a different type of pedal assist that is used. Not sure how true that is?

However the balance of the bike I felt was good and so was the seating position, seat was comfy too and having broken my pelvis in the past, that is saying something.

Will NOT be getting the Freego.

On going back to the shop, they also had the Raleigh Velo Citi and the Raleigh Velo Trail. It was decided that although the Raleigh Velo Citi was the 'look' of the bike I was thinking of, being 700c wheels and an 18" frame it was going to be too big. However they had a demo version of the Raleigh Velo Trail which we took out and because of the 26" wheels the 18" frame didnt feel too big. It doesnt have a throttle and works with a torque sensor? Has some sort of trip computer on the handlebars and you can adjust the assistance from eco - high.

So I set off and almost immediately I could hear the motor slightly, but there wasnt that lurching feeling as the motor kicked in. The cycling was easy and it just felt quite bizzare not to be completely out of breath. I went round the little circuit each time and it just felt a very smooth transition, didnt feel out of control at all and was very nice, liked it a lot.

However, with the battery on the luggage rack, it did make the bike feel rather 'top heavy' does that make sense, and rather more wobbly that the Freego. The seat was also incredibly painful to sit on. It does also have mountain bike wheels.

The dealer said that he would be able to just exchange the tyres for a hybrid version FOC (like for like quality, although not sure what that means in reality) and that he could do something with a different seat. I have a Brookes here, but not sure if it would fit due to the possibility of the back of it fouling the rear bar of the luggage rack.

The other advantage is that this dealer is literally in the next town and has been in business for over 20 years and would do all the servicing etc.

So would this be a good purchase? Wasnt really intending getting a mountain bike, although this would have hybrid tyres on it.

The shop also said that the battery had a one year warranty, some places Ive read that it has a two year warranty, the website says nothing. Does anyone know exactly what it has?

So do all bikes with a throttle have this lurching thing?
Would this Velo Trail be a good buy? (yet again cannot find many reviews)
Anything else anyone can suggest that has this smooth introduction of the motor?

Sorry all the questions

 

[flecc]

Not necessarily, but torque sensor bikes which measure your pressure on the pedals can take up more smoothly if you only apply moderate pressure. However, I wouldn't worry too much about the sudden take up of power, newcomers to e-bikes often say this, but they get used to it so rapidly they often come back in here asking how they can get more power! Compared to any other vehicle the power levels are very low and are easily coped with once familiar.

The Raleigh Velo Trail is well made in Germany and uses an established front hub motor used elsewhere, so it should be a reliable and safe buy. Their bikes using the different Panasonic unit do have a 2 year battery warranty which might account for the differences you've seen quoted, but I don't know about the Velo Trail warranty.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

On some bikes, the pedal sensor is like a switch, and just gives full power (or a lower amount if you have selectable assist) soon after you start pedalling. The throttle on these bikes normally takes precedence, so, as soon as you open the throttle a little bit, you get however much throttle you've opened it, and the pedal sensor is disabled until you let go the throttle. It doesn't take long to get used to it if you own such a bike, but other systems are more natural. Shame you didn't try the throttle because it would have been easier.

 

[Farleymarley]

Mmm but I need to be able to use the pedal part more often than the throttle tbh. That feeling of lurching forward was like being in the passenger seat when someone is driving badly. Didnt like it at all. Im not going to be a long distance cycler and live in a village so dont need speed, just assistance really.

Thanks for the info Flecc, so to your knowledge, is there a bike that works the same way as the Raleigh in smooth take up yet has the battery behind the seat post and not on the luggage rack (still got to be around the £1000 mark, so that counts out the higher Raleigh's) Its that feeling of being slightly top heavy without even having a work bag or luggage etc that is putting me off buying that one.

Fussy arent I lol, however this is the next biggest thing Ive bought since I got my car and its got to be right.

 

[flecc]

Hardly any at that £1000 price point I'm afraid. There's plenty of choice of them from £1500 upwards. Giant Bicycles, the world's largest manufacturer, use an excellent rear TMM torque sensor on their current e-bikes and just one model falls into your price point at £995 if bought online. It has a short seat stem so having the saddle low isn't a problem, but no sprung front fork. The sprung front fork version is £1240. Their batteries aren't behind the seat post but they are slung low from the carrier alongside the rear wheel, so not that top heavy feel of a top mounted battery.

Giant Twist Express Step Through 2012

 

[Farleymarley]

Well I went to All about the Bike today, took quite a long time as we got stuck in traffic so had to buy my friend lunch as compensation lol

They were extremely helpful and I tried:
Juicy Classic
Schwinn Tailwind
Python Epass
I saw they also had a Freego Eagle but as I had already tried the Freego Hawk which I didnt like, I didnt worry about that one.

I had wanted to try the Fast4ward as they are advertised as having a torque assist, however they had sent theirs back due to a particular model having some sort of problem with the assist having a 'soft spot' which they said made it an awful ride? and apparently the manufacturer are going to sell the current stock before modifying the model to get rid of this.

They didnt have any of the other sub £1000 bikes in stock as its only a little room at the front and a big warehouse at the back, I think their main business is mail order as its not a shop as such. Really lovely people, lots of time for us, tweaking seats and handlebars etc.

I very quickly discovered through the test rides that they all work in a similar way to the Freego, ie, if you have the power setting to low, then you start pedalling and the motor kicks in, no matter how slowly you are going, it speeds you up to the pre-set speed so in some cases I was in the wrong gear and the pedals just spun. One one bike I had to be in 7th gear before I could actually pedal even though the pedal assist was on low. I do not like this.

I cannot find any other bikes locally to try. I cant find the Giant Twist Express anywhere and I would definately need to try before buying.

So what I have decided to do is go for the Raleigh Velo Trail, its a really local dealer, he said he would change the tyres to hybrid ones and will probably swap the stock saddle for my Brookes.

I prefer the feel of this bike, its a lot more natural, after all I do like cycling, just dont have the stamina I used to. The way that the torque assist works is much more natural to me and doesnt make me feel that I dont have total control of the bike.

So I do have some questions:
Ive tried to find some reviews on the Raleigh Velo Trail and have only come upon one, which is mainly about the Velo Citi version. Can anyone give me any links to any ones on the Trail.

With the torque sensor, does this need any special care?

Are there any known problems with this bike?

With the battery being on the rack are there any special considerations with this placement ie do these sorts of batteries need some sort of protection from the rain?

Anyone else got one?

Ta muchly

Have now got to go off and find the best type of security for it, although that might have to be a different thread.