Convert a Kona Cinder Cone to an electric bike; please help!

[Scott_J]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice please, regarding converting an old Cinder Cone for my girlfriend?

We're hoping to see the Tour de France on Alpe d'Huez this year, and as we usually take the tandem abroad, I'm getting a bit fed up dragging a tandem over the Alps/Pyrenees (with an ever reluctant to pedal missus on the back) so this year, I thought I would treat her to her own two wheels (she has got a bloody nice bike actually, but gives up on hills) with electric assistance.

After the holiday is over, I was looking to use the bike as a derny for my training. I have a tarmac road (not mine!) which I can use at work, so I'm looking to create a fast bike, for little money (aren't we all?)

The bike will be transported to France on the roof of my car. We're not riding there!!! I know nothing about electric bikes and this is my first post, so please be gentle!

Thanks in advance! ;-)

Scott

 

[D8ve]

The first thing is you need to try an electric bike or two.
Some test rides will let you know what they can do.
And how she feels on one.
For you a legal bike will not do? The 25kph cut cut means it is just too slow on the flat and to heavy.
For your girlfriend it's different. If she won't peddal then a throttle is normally recommended.
14 km is usually easy for an electric bike but as it averages 8.1% peddling will help and I think be required. one of the trade members will no doubt say that there bike can do it unassisted if so I look forward to her test report.
As it is all uphill a legal bike will do fine if she held 25kph she would beat the pros uphill there.
The oxidrive or whoosh cd kit would be my recommendation.
With as big a battery as possible.
The whoosh system could also be fitted to the tandem to help you drag her over the mountains too...

D8ve

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It would be nice to have a photo or other picture of the actual bike because there's different versions of the Cinder Cone.

If you want speed and climbing power, it has to be a crank-drive motor. The Bafang BBS01 kit with a downtube battery should do it. Get the 13.5ah battery because you'll use a lot of power on a continuous climb. You can get it all from Woosh, who are nice and cheap too.

The kit is very simple to install provided the bike has a standard 68mm or 73mm bottom bracket.

 

[Scott_J]

This pic is the same bike, but my missus' bike has alloy straight forks. We changed them as they were too heavy.

I guess the Bafang looks the best bet, but with the battery, £500+ notes is a little out of my price range.

I couldn't put a motor on my tandem. Maybe when I'm a little older, but not now, as I'm too much of a purist ;-)

BTW: Thanks for the replies. Keep 'em coming!

 

[D8ve]

If you can't afford the woosh kit then you are going to struggle.
Cyclotricity do a cheaper kit but with a smaller battery.
The battery is Important and a major part of the bill.
If you have an electronics background then there are options but I dont think there is much you can do.
All that's left is secondhand or hireing a bike?
What do you think?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Even the Cyclotricity kit will set you back £450 with the LED display.. There are some cheaper kits, but then you end up with something inadequate.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Alp d'Huez on an electric bike? Be still my heart!

http://www.la-montee-electrique.com/?page_id=13

Cheers
Tony

 

[RobF]

You mention using the bike as a derny for your training.

A derny is something that is surprisingly difficult to achieve from an ebike.

Trundling along at 20mph with little pedal input will require a powerful motor and, if you want to do so for more than a few miles, an enormous battery.

Gaining an extra couple of mph saps power significantly - wind resistance - which is why being dernied works so well for the cyclist.

The dernys used in pro racing have, I believe, 100cc petrol motors.

Putting that in context, a 50cc moped will absolutely slaughter an ebike in terms of speed and especially range.

 

[Scott_J]

A derny is something that is surprisingly difficult to achieve from an ebike.

Trundling along at 20mph with little pedal input will require a powerful motor and, if you want to do so for more than a few miles, an enormous battery.

Yup! Can't disagree with what you have said, but this will get the missus out of the house and she can't complain that we don't spend any time together!
If I can get 25mph for an hour (with pedalling) with a Cyclotricity kit rear drive 48v 500W-1000W hub, then I'll be happy.

Is this achievable...?

 

[trex]

easy peasy on the flat. But direct drive motors are not good on hills.
In keeping with low budget builds, for speed, go for 48V 750W BBS02, for climbing hills at high speed, 36V 500W BBS02, for good all rounder: 48V 500W BPM or 36V BPM if your'e skint.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You'll be using about 25wh per mile, so you need a battery with a capacity of over 600wh, which means 20ah at 36v or 15ah at 48v.

 

[Scott_J]

Hmmm, this is getting interesting now...

I'm considering getting a 29er, so we can both use it! Me for the coffee shop and 'er indoors for longer jaunts.

If I'm going to spend that amount on the 48V 750W BBS02, I may as well get a new bike

So it's; Low speed =better hill climbing without over heating, or high speed = not so good at hill climbing and will overheat on hill?

I need speed+hill climbing, so what's the best 29er or 700c for under £1k?

ps. no fighting now chaps!

 

[trex]

the low speed option is usually better for hillclimbing.
For £1000, speed + hill climbing, 48V 500W BPM with 48V 15AH battery and 25A controller. It's difficult to find a battery with that much capacity that'll go on the downtube. Ask member mechaniker to quote, I reckon it's about £700 delivered. The alternative is the 36V 25A 500W BBS02 with 36V 15AH battery kit £685 from Woosh delivered.

 

[Kinninvie]

My 29er with BBS02 is a great bike and it (the bike) was only £399 from Evans.
They have sold out at present but you may find one elsewhere.
I can do 60 mile rides on it with ease.
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/cannondale/trail-6-29er-2014-mountain-bike-ec053947

 

[Scott_J]

Thanks for the info guys

I was looking at 29ers, but they all seem to have suspension forks in my price range, and I see them as an added weight to carry. As the bike isn't going to see much dirt, I was thinking of one of these:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/eastway-fb40-2014/

My question is, would the motor, a 48V 500W BPM with 48V 15AH battery and 25A controller, be too powerful for it?

ps. I would fit wider tyres... (yes, I know about width and rim configs! )

 

[trex]

yes, it can send you flying.
You need a solid bike with good shocks.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Thanks for the info guys

I was looking at 29ers, but they all seem to have suspension forks in my price range, and I see them as an added weight to carry. As the bike isn't going to see much dirt, I was thinking of one of these:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/eastway-fb40-2014/

My question is, would the motor, a 48V 500W BPM with 48V 15AH battery and 25A controller, be too powerful for it?

ps. I would fit wider tyres... (yes, I know about width and rim configs! )

That bike looks a great bike for conversion. The 500w 48v BPM would be a good motor for it if you need serious power. 500w is too much for forks, but will be fine in the rear drop-outs. That motor would go nicely with one of those downtube batteries with integrated 20A sinewave controllers that BMSBattery do, or, if you don't want to pedal at all, the S12S controller gives a bit more current, but probably too much for one of those bateries, so then you need to be a bit more creative with choosing a battery and its installation.

 

[Scott_J]

That bike looks a great bike for conversion. The 500w 48v BPM would be a good motor for it if you need serious power. 500w is too much for forks, but will be fine in the rear drop-outs. That motor would go nicely with one of those downtube batteries with integrated 20A sinewave controllers that BMSBattery do, or, if you don't want to pedal at all, the S12S controller gives a bit more current, but probably too much for one of those bateries, so then you need to be a bit more creative with choosing a battery and its installation.

Thanks for the info, but it's a bit gobbledegook to me!!!
I wouldn't put such a motor on the front forks, as the missus is riding it.

Re. Batteries: I'm just going with what you guys are telling me, as I know jack about electrics etc. ha!

May I ask, would a 48V 750W BBS02 be better or has the 36V 500W BBS02 got more torque for the mountains? Remember, it's Alpe d'huez AND the flat for when I come back home, so I need a bit of an all-rounder. Not asking for much am I?

You can get a BBS02 for a little over £400 offa ebay now, and the listing states that it can do 45mph!
Is that possible? I couldn't imagine that speed, even with a bloody strong wind behind you and a can of beans!

This means I could make the bike for around £800... Oops, oh yeah; I need a battery! What make/model ?

 

[RobF]

The Alpine climbs are not particularly steep, just long.

You mention a battery in your last line, when that's the first thing you should be thinking about.

Almost any motor will do the job for you, almost any battery will not.

What you need to work out is how much battery capacity you will need to power the motor for long enough to drag up those climbs.

Climbing takes a huge toll on battery capacity, so you might be unpleasantly surprised.

 

[Scott_J]

The Alpine climbs are not particularly steep, just long.
You mention a battery in your last line, when that's the first thing you should be thinking about.
Almost any motor will do the job for you, almost any battery will not.
What you need to work out is how much battery capacity you will need to power the motor for long enough to drag up those climbs.
Climbing takes a huge toll on battery capacity, so you might be unpleasantly surprised.

d'huez is a bit of a beast. I've done it a few times whilst touring and on my racing bike. It hurt every time. I know my partner won't make it on her own, hence the need for an electric bike.

Re. "Almost any motor will do the job for you"

It seems I'm getting conflicting advice here. I've spoken to other electric bike sellers, and nobody can give me a straight answer. Yes, everyone has an opinion, and I'm grateful for the advice, but...