DIY stage 7: first ride !! :)

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
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I would prefer to travel light unless I have to do otherwise.
I can't answer your other questions but I can comment with my personal preference on this particular topic: my Brompton being amongst the heaviest to start with (more like a mini touring bike), I don't really mind the extra weight of a powerful battery. This way, I am not only guaranteed to have a good range, but also to be able to conquer most hills on my typical trips. I wouldn't go with 14Ah in LifePo4, as the dimensions and weight just get too much relative to the style of bike. On a full-size bicycle however, I would probably consider this option :) (just like the Wisper)

I fully appreciate the need for a smaller/lighter solution though, especially to preserve the quick-fold action of the Brompton. The technology limitations being what they are at the moment, this clearly* compromises hill-climbing abilities (because of the peak current draw), which reduces the scope of application of such e-bike. Fine in flat countries, but not suitable for my typical usage pattern.

* "clearly": well, that's based on what I read and not on personal experience. I don't have a power meter yet to produce my LifePo4 statistics (Cycle Analyst, Watts-Up or Turnigy computers).

Enjoy e-cycling ! :)
Cheers, Dan
 

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
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My Brompton still folds very small. The handlebar requires fiddly adjustments, but the control layout I am now using is both ergonomically-efficient and folding-friendly (see photos in one of the threads).

I don't see any worrying rubbing points.
FYI: I've removed obsolete photos and I have added new ones. Click this link and scroll down to check them out:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4786-diy-stage-7-first-ride.html#post60714

I have also opened a new thread to talk about the battery and controller layout:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4825-diy-stage-8-continuous-improvements.html#post60991

Cheers, Dan
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Brompton M P or S

Ok a little off topic Dan but as a Brompton owner which one would you recommend :confused:

I have looked at the M P & S. I don't like the look of the P bars and am drawn to the flat bar S.

In terms of gears I want more than one but even with the S2L I think I would want more gears so that would be custom order I guess. Also not interested in the ultra light models at £400+ extra. A friend from work is bringing me one in to try tomorrow, though I am not sure which model it is.

I plan to buy it on the cycle to work scheme and later fit a Tongxin to it :p

(Sorry again for hijacking your thread)

Regards

Jerry
 
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daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
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I have looked at the M P & S. I don't like the look of the P bars and am drawn to the flat bar S.
The P bar is amazing for touring, but let's be honest, it looks a bit outlandish and disproportionate for the Brompton.

The S bar looks sleek and is suitable for low riding, quick "A to B" style. Beware though, as it isn't compatible with the large touring bag. There is however a brilliant new bag this year which you should consider purchasing, as the quick-release luggage block is really one of the Brompton's strong points.

The M bar allows for a more comfortable position and is compatible with the mighty touring bag (its successor is coming out soon by the way, we can expect something even better !).

The rear rack adds weight and breaks the sleek looks, but it makes the Brommie really stable in "parked" mode (folded or semi-folded). With it, you can easily roll the bike just like a trolley (using the Eazy-Wheel kit or your own roller-blade wheels). I often use my Brompton as a shopping trolley, with the touring bag wide open...this way, I don't even have to park the bike outside, it stays with me all the time :) Of course, the rear rack is also great if you intend to carry things.

Gears: 2, 3, or 6. Well, I love the 6-speed option (which is a 3-speed hub coupled with a custom 2-speed derailleur), but it really depends on your usage pattern. The new BWR (Brompton Wide Range) gear hub offers an even better choice of gears. There are after market mods, such as a Schlumpf drive (expensive) or a custom-fitted crank gear with fewer teeth.

As for the Titanium bits...I personally think that they are a waste of money, but then, I am neither wealthy not interested in lightweight purism.

My Brompton is a M6R+: M handlebar, 6 speeds, rear Rack, and the "plus" is for the dynamo lights (the rear LED light actually contains a condenser that keeps it on for a few minutes after stopping pedaling). Again, it adds some weight and cables, but it must admit it is quite a nice addition to my battery-powered front light. The new Brompton models come with a re-designed front hub dynamo, so double-check before you buy, otherwise you will be wasting money (when you install your Tongxin).

Although I have the renowned Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres, I hear good things about the Brompton-branded Kevlar-lined ones.

The brakes have improved over the years, but I would recommend switching to Kool-Stop Salmon pads, at least at the front. They are great ! (I am using the black/pink mixed compound)

The new "handle-saddle" is pretty good, but as usual many prefer to replace it with a Brooks or anything to suit personal taste. I am using an aftermarket saddle with a standard clip. The Brompton Pentaclip is a fantastic little option, as it enables fine-tuning the saddle adjustment.

The extended seat post is a must for normal-height/tall people, unless you like the security of reaching the ground with the flat of your feet (some riders do). I much prefer using the tip of my feet to apply force on the pedals, and I don't mind the extra effort required to keep the bike stable at stopping junctions. There is also an extended seat post that collapses, which helps keeping the overall dimensions small when folded. I have no personal experience with it.

Aftermarket handlebar grips and bar-ends are really a must, and I can thoroughly recommend the ones I am using (you will need to modify the handlebar control layout when you install the Tongxin, so you might as well consider grips that can be easily modified). See here for my review:

Review, Photos of Brompton with BBB Ergoset Handlebar Grips + Bar ends - Bike Forums

In terms of gears I want more than one but even with the S2L I think I would want more gears so that would be custom order I guess.
...
I plan to buy it on the cycle to work scheme and later fit a Tongxin to it
Once the motor is on, you can ride nearly all the time in top gear ! The 6-gear Brommie offers a higher gear and a lower cadence, which I like with my Bafang. I actually do use the other 6 gears, even down to the lower one, because of the steep local hills that require a higher cadence (well, it's just my style of riding, as I don't like to rely solely on the motor's assistance).

Having tried the Bafang with a 3-speed Sturmey Archer (on my Merc), I can safely say that 3 speeds is enough with assistance...just pray that your battery never runs flat ;)

You should register on the Yahoo BromptonTalk mailing-list, as there are lots of knowledgeable owners there. It's available to registered-users only, as opposed to open communities like Bikes-Forums.net, etc... I think it's a shame, but that's the way it is.

Let us know how it goes !
Cheers, Daniel

Bonus photos:



 
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AndyOfTheSouth

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2009
347
4
Hi Jerry

As ever, Dan has pretty much sorted it out with his post eg the extended seat post is pretty much essential.

One observation. I have had my Brompton for years. In a sense I use it all the time because it is almost always in the back of my car ready for action.

The one thing I don't like is its weight when lifting. Because of this, if I were buying new, I'd be awfully tempted by a titanium version. Yes, this would be expensive, but if you used it year after year ... go on, you know you'd want one!

Andy
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
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Cambridge, UK
Wow that was some rightup Dan!

Thanks for taking the time for explaining it all to me and for the links. I will be sure to check them out.

I can see your passionate about your Brompton :p

Oh Andy and thanks for your input too. The cycle to work scheme does go up to a £1000 though the wieght savings do not seem that much for the extra dosh. £300 for 1kg or so!

Regards

Jerry
 
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daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
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The one thing I don't like is its weight when lifting. Because of this, if I were buying new, I'd be awfully tempted by a titanium version. Yes, this would be expensive, but if you used it year after year ... go on, you know you'd want one!
Thanks for your feedback Andy.

The Titanium parts only save a minute amount of weight, compared to a "typical" Brompton. It's a question of proportions: if your favorite configuration is a SL2 or a single-speed fixie, then opting for the Titanium bits (i.e. front fork and rear part of the frame *) makes sense as the shaved weight will be perceivable when carrying the bike around (that's ideal for a commuter who have strong legs or whose typical cycling journeys don't include steep hills).

* PS: the new lightweight seat post is now made with aluminium, due to the difficulty to source Ti...according to Brompton PR.

However, if you're looking into making the bike a bit more "useful" or versatile, then you'll quickly be adding weight such that the Titanium bits will become irrelevant. You muscle power will build-up to the extent that the weight savings offered by the Ti parts will not be perceivable anymore. In this case, why not use your budget to purchase more "important" things (in my opinion: invest in expensive quality luggage, which will serve you for years). This particularly applies to you as you will be putting a Tongxin on the bike, which will inevitably render the Titanium parts completely pointless (the Tongxin setup will obviously be lighter than the Bafang beast, but it will definitely change the way the Brompton feels when carrying it around).

Andy, what do you think ?
 

AndyOfTheSouth

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2009
347
4
Gulp! I knew I was asking for trouble by taking on such a formidable adversary as Dan…

Here goes.

When I pick up an ordinary ie non-folding, non-electric bike, I have one of three reactions to what it feels like. If it weighs 25 lbs ish, I think it feels great. 25 ish to 30, it feels OK. Over 30, it feels heavy and I wish it were lighter. There seem to be perceptual thresholds, step changes, involved, rather than a continuous scale.

The same applies to folding bikes. I know this because from time to time I go into my folding bike shop to look at them. Sad, but there you are.

If I pick up a really light one, and there are Dahons and others like this as well as the titanium Bromptons, I just think - Wow!

With folding bikes there is a practical side to this as well. If you are going to be lifting and carrying something a lot, the weight is important and not merely a matter of aesthetics.

Which is why I would get the lightest folding bike I could afford if I were buying one now.

Adding a motor and battery complicates things a bit, but it does rather depend on what is added. A stonking great battery might overwhelm any base bike advantages, but a more minimalist set up would still allow the overall weight to be kept low.

I think this is one of those happy occasions where your head should follow your heart...
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
When I pick up an ordinary ie non-folding, non-electric bike, I have one of three reactions to what it feels like. If it weighs 25 lbs ish, I think it feels great. 25 ish to 30, it feels OK. Over 30, it feels heavy and I wish it were lighter. There seem to be perceptual thresholds, step changes, involved, rather than a continuous scale.
I wonder if these steps are common for many cyclists, since those are exactly my perception points too.
Unfortunately it makes all e-bikes feel too heavy and there's little prospect of then getting into "ok", let alone "light".
.
 

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
1,224
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I can see your point Andy, about some kind of physical+psychological threshold involved when having to carry the bike around for some distance.

This is definitely down to personal appreciation of what is heavy and what is not. I must say, my e-Brompton's weight has gone over that threshold, and I find it a lot harder to wheel the bike around (when folded), let alone carrying it with one arm...that Bafang ain't no slim dude ! :eek: :p

Plus, I now tend to load the luggage more with the knowledge that the motor will take the extra weight without complains...:D

At any rate, I am now cycling more than I ever did, which is good for me, good for the environment, ... only the sheep and other farm animals watch me with bemusement when I whiz pass them :) I think they are just curious about the unusual noise !
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
only the sheep and other farm animals watch me with bemusement when I whiz pass them :) I think they are just curious about the unusual noise !
The Bafang "whine" does that to the sheep in my area too, but the best effect is on wood pigeons which roost in trees mid afternoon alongside country lanes. It scares the hell out of them and they often take off and flee as I get close. :)
 

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
Pheasants and Grouse aren't too keen either, though quite often the Grouse (being not the brightest of animals) will run directly away from the sound - i.e. down the middle of the road :D, I've seen them do this with cars too...
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Man and I thought I was taking this thread off topic :eek:

Dans posts always go this way lol

Dan I joined the Yahoo group and also found this site which is nicely laid out with all the options

Brompton Folding Bikes

Regards

Jerry
 
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jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Well just went to a LBS and tried a Brompton. I have to say I was impressed especially with how well it rode :p

I am leaning towards a S2L initally. As I will no doubt end up putting a Tongxin in it, I don't think I need the extra gears. I might order the S bag as well at the same time. I don't think its worth another £400 for the X and the 1kg ish saving. The S2L is only 10.7kgs anyway.

I have found a Black one in stock and the company are signed up to my works onyourbike scheme. Works out at 40% saving and paid over 18 months tax/interest free :p

Its really an indulgence though given I already have the Cytronex :eek:

Does anyone wheel theirs round the supermarket when they go for a few groceries ?

Regards

Jerry
 
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daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
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Well done Jerry :)
 

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
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You can try color schemes here:

Interactive

Nice ! :)
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
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Cambridge, UK
Lol excellent link.

Problem is if I order a specific color its 10 weeks waiting time :eek:

I do like the racing green with black extremities though :p

PS or maybe cobalt blue with black extremities

or desert sand with black extremities lmao

Regards

Jerry
 
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daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
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