Electric Planes

[the_killjoy]

Electric Planes in 10 years ~ having a laugh.

Does anyone really believe that battery technology is going to progress such that in 10 years there will be 150 seater aircraft with a 300 mile range (which means 450 miles to allow for emergencies and diversions)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39350054

 

[flecc]

I think they are getting in practice for April 1st.
.

 

[Danidl]

Electric Planes in 10 years ~ having a laugh.

Does anyone really believe that battery technology is going to progress such that in 10 years there will be 150 seater aircraft with a 300 mile range (which means 450 miles to allow for emergencies and diversions)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39350054

..... Why not. This need not just be a pre April 1 story. Current battery technology has not the energy density of conventional fuels, but there are options on the horizon. Metal air cells , whereby a metal such as aluminium is allowed to react with caustic soda, and use oxigen from air , have the appropriate energy density. They are not rechargable in the sense that a lithium ion battery is, but can be remanufactured. Apparently the ,waste product is a sticky goo. The primary battery fuel would be kitchen foil.
Such a scheme would be suitable for aircraft. .. a cassette being removed in minutes and a fresh one inserted.

 

[flecc]

..... Why not. This need not just be a pre April 1 story. Current battery technology has not the energy density of conventional fuels, but there are options on the horizon. Metal air cells , whereby a metal such as aluminium is allowed to react with caustic soda, and use oxigen from air , have the appropriate energy density. They are not rechargable in the sense that a lithium ion battery is, but can be remanufactured. Apparently the ,waste product is a sticky goo. The primary battery fuel would be kitchen foil.
Such a scheme would be suitable for aircraft. .. a cassette being removed in minutes and a fresh one inserted.

Except it won't happen, I've long since lost count of all the posts like yours, full of theoretical promise.

One thing makes a total nonsense of the linked story, flight to Paris! In this age when we are increasingly concerned about the effects of fossil fuel use, including aircraft, why bother when we can travel quickly to Paris by fast train and minimise the environmental damage. That's where official promotion will be increasingly concentrated.
.

 

[Danidl]

Except it won't happen, I've long since lost count of all the posts like yours, full of theoretical promise.

One thing makes a total nonsense of the linked story, flight to Paris! In this age when we are increasingly concerned about the effects of fossil fuel use, including aircraft, why bother when we can travel quickly to Paris by fast train and minimise the environmental damage. That's where official promotion will be increasingly concentrated.
.

Train ... Easier to do from central London than from central Dublin... But I do accept the point.
Flight .. whether synthetic fuels e.g methanol, hydrogen burnt in turbines, is a better option than in electrical systems will probably play out over a much longer time scale, but we will still be using flight up the future.

Aluminium air batteries I understand are in existence and used for their high energy density. .. However overall system energy efficiency including remanufacture recycling is poor.

 

[flecc]

Train ... Easier to do from central London than from central Dublin...

Considering the many major miracles of civil engineering completed by Irish labour, seems you need to get digging again.
.

 

[Woosh]

like digging a tunnel between Cork and Brest?

 

[mike killay]

Some time ago now I heard a radio programme that suggested that because of airport congestion, internal national flights might become a thing of the past, followed by international flights so that eventually only intercontinental flights would be possible because of the crowded airspace.
Obviously, improved automation might make it possible to fill available airspace with far more planes.

 

[flecc]

Some time ago now I heard a radio programme that suggested that because of airport congestion, internal national flights might become a thing of the past, followed by international flights

I'm sure that high speed trains are the sensible answer for shorter distances, covering much of Europe. It's just sad that we in the UK have lagged so far behind Europe in this respect.

If we'd followed their example we'd now have HS1, HS2, HS3 and HS4 at least, connecting all the UK's major distant points to the capital and the tunnel. Scheduled internal flights could have been virtually eliminated and motorways congestion reduced.
.

 

[the_killjoy]

Also of course you would be hard pressed to design, certify and get into service a conventional aircraft in 10 years, let alone the necessary infrastructure to achieve a 30 min turnround.

 

[mike killay]

I'm sure that high speed trains are the sensible answer for shorter distances, covering much of Europe. It's just sad that we in the UK have lagged so far behind Europe in this respect.

If we'd followed their example we'd now have HS1, HS2, HS3 and HS4 at least, connecting all the UK's major distant points to the capital and the tunnel. Scheduled internal flights could have been virtually eliminated and motorways congestion reduced.
.

Flecc,
UK politicians seem far more interested in the problems of and helping foreign countries rather than our own.
As it is, with so much immigration, there will not be sufficient room for extra high speed railways.
I have to say that the theoretical possibility of going to my own Railway station and travelling easily to all parts of Europe is a wonderful thought, but no longer possible.
In 1960 I caught a train at Swansea, went via London and Paris to Istanbul in comfort.
No hanging around airports waiting for delayed flights etc.

 

[gray198]

What about a hyperloop under the channel????

 

[Danidl]

What about a hyperloop under the channel????

Well said. Look at the actual distance Between Alaska and Russia and with two islands between. Imagine a hyperloop from China via Europe Russia to America ...

 

[eBoy]

Apparently aircraft designers have rolled out a high-tensile rubber fuselage now to obviate the effects of metal fatigue stress on landing. The first prototype will be a Boing 747.

 

[lee-wave]

The near future for electric powered flying machines will be drones transporting people within airport boundaries or maybe between skyscraper rooftops. There is a trail going on in Dubai with the Ehang...

https://www.dezeen.com/2016/01/07/ehang-184-worlds-first-automated-passenger-drone-ces-2016/?li_source=LI&li_medium=bottom_block_1

Recently to commemorate Bleriots first crossing of the channel an electric powered aircraft made the same crossing.

It takes huge amount of energy to lift the aircraft off the ground but once at altitude electric motors maintain their efficiency.

Also see NASA X-57

https://www.dezeen.com/2016/07/11/nasa-x-57-maxwell-electric-aircraft-fuel-efficient-reduced-flight-times-noise-carbon-emissions/

This type of aircraft, I believe, will be the future of short to medium range flying transport. The jet engine for commercial aircraft is probably on the downward slope of obsolescence...

 

[Danidl]

The near future for electric powered flying machines will be drones transporting people within airport boundaries or maybe between skyscraper rooftops. There is a trail going on in Dubai with the Ehang...

https://www.dezeen.com/2016/01/07/ehang-184-worlds-first-automated-passenger-drone-ces-2016/?li_source=LI&li_medium=bottom_block_1

Recently to commemorate Bleriots first crossing of the channel an electric powered aircraft made the same crossing.

It takes huge amount of energy to lift the aircraft off the ground but once at altitude electric motors maintain their efficiency.

Also see NASA X-57

https://www.dezeen.com/2016/07/11/nasa-x-57-maxwell-electric-aircraft-fuel-efficient-reduced-flight-times-noise-carbon-emissions/

This type of aircraft, I believe, will be the future of short to medium range flying transport. The jet engine for commercial aircraft is probably on the downward slope of obsolescence...

How long must we wait until airports use catapults or rail guns to accelerate aircraft into the sky...

 

[flecc]

The near future for electric powered flying machines will be drones transporting people within airport boundaries or maybe between skyscraper rooftops. There is a trail going on in Dubai with the Ehang...

After today's news and scary photos of an Uber automated car crashing, one of a recent series of such accidents, I think people might be very nervous about taking an automated flight.

I believe we are much further away from these futuristic scenarios than the optimists think, it seesm to me that we are trying to run before learning to walk.
.

 

[flecc]

How long must we wait until airports use catapults or rail guns to accelerate aircraft into the sky...

This is more realistic, ground powered launching makes sense.
.

 

[tommie]

Not realistic at all, the G-forces involved would be unacceptable

 

[Danidl]

The near future for electric powered flying machines will be drones transporting people within airport boundaries or maybe between skyscraper rooftops. There is a trail going on in Dubai with the Ehang...

https://www.dezeen.com/2016/01/07/ehang-184-worlds-first-automated-passenger-drone-ces-2016/?li_source=LI&li_medium=bottom_block_1

Recently to commemorate Bleriots first crossing of the channel an electric powered aircraft made the same crossing.

It takes huge amount of energy to lift the aircraft off the ground but once at altitude electric motors maintain their efficiency.

Also see NASA X-57

https://www.dezeen.com/2016/07/11/nasa-x-57-maxwell-electric-aircraft-fuel-efficient-reduced-flight-times-noise-carbon-emissions/

This type of aircraft, I believe, will be the future of short to medium range flying transport. The jet engine for commercial aircraft is probably on the downward slope of obsolescence...

.. my understanding of flight dynamics is limited, but i understand that propellers have particular limitations when the speed increases close to Mach 1 . Jet engines do not have the same limitations, so it is likely that jet engines will endure for long haul flights. Whether the fuel remains as present a fossil hydrocarbon or becomes say a hydrogen oxygen mix or an inorganic chemical reaction would be a matter for economics.
I note that the electric plane in your link is good for 195 miles hr , whereas a jet is nearly 3 times faster. So good for intercity hops e.g London Paris London Edinburgh, but not long haul.