Failed on my first big hill

[Deleted member 4366]

what do you mean by what the bike can do? are frame shape, suspension, brakes, gears, throttle, wheel size, weight, accessories more important than the motor and battery?

Of course they are in some circumstances.

 

[trex]

is there a systematic approach to finding the best bike for someone like Gooner on the other thread? His weight is 80kgs, ex regular cyclist before his op. Now looking for a bike for leisure cycling about 10 miles radius.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Look I do agree with all last few posts.. Yes for some ( as I,ve said before) is perfect. Yes it will climb given the criteria mentioned.

And to be fair it was infact the Wisper Site itself that started the debate. Google"Wusper Torque" and first thing seen is
" A real alternative to Bosch Crank Drive"...
To make an analogy
The Mazda mx5 is a fantastic little car. It handles well, goes great,and on a sunny day probably offers the best motoing has to offer.Hoeever if Mazda in started saying " A real alternative to Porsche Boxster there would be a few disgruntled customers.. The mx5 is a fantastic car in its own right, comparison with a Boxser especially by manufacturer infact puts both cars down. They offer different experiences.
On the climbing ability on 250w motors nothing will convince me a hub could be superior...ask Bosch , Yamaha, Impulse...they developed their CD units for a reason. To give motors a massive range of ratios and rider a massive choice.

Hi Flud,

I will check but I don't think I have said the Wisper drive system "is the same" as a Bosch system. I think my words were "a real alternative", and I stand by that remark. Both systems are operated by dual torque sensors and a cadence sensors. Both systems splice the information collected from the sensors to create a seamless riding experience.

All the best

David

 

[Deleted member 4366]

is there a systematic approach to finding the best bike for someone like Gooner on the other thread? His weight is 80kgs, ex regular cyclist before his op. Now looking for a bike for leisure cycling about 10 miles radius.

No.

 

[flecc]

Everybody should stop focusing on the differences between crank-drive and hub-motor. Ultimately it doesn't matter one iota.

And there's your best of both worlds bike on this link, a hub motor doing CD duty.

A CD unit in a hub would be quite a challenge, possible though, Cyclemaster fashion chain driving a large hubshell sprocket.
.

 

[flecc]

the revolutionary Cyclemaster circa 1951.
26cc.

That was the 32cc upgraded one though, the original 26cc one was black painted.

It was actually a DKW design that was never built, like so many German designs it may have been seized as war reparations. Not totally a DKW original though, since they derived the design from the Sachs Saxonette of the 1930s.
.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

And there's your best of both worlds bike on this link, a hub motor doing CD duty.

A CD unit in a hub would be quite a challenge, possible though, Cyclemaster fashion chain driving a large hubshell sprocket.
.

I still have that kit if anybody wants to install it on their bike. It turns the pedals for you, so it only gives power while you're pedalling from the throttle, so I guess that means that it's a legal throttle-only bike.

The power was pretty good. It could easily get my 100kg up a 14% hill without pedalling. By that I mean without feet on the pedals or with feet on the pedals but relaxed. Beats any Bosch!
Video here:

 

[shemozzle999]

No, only the long term battery test, since that bike was most suited to avoiding pedalling. I wanted to make sure the motor did almost everything to really punish the battery.

The temperature check long climb was on my 700c wheel bike, using the identical motor/controller/battery combination. Both were Ezee bikes.
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You mean the same SB motor in a 700 wheel pulling 700/800 W over 8 miles for 3/4 hour @ 12mph average unaided climb speed was identical to the 20" wheel setup the in the other post - my those batteries must have been good:

http://pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/epacsim.7822/#post-98389

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

is there a systematic approach to finding the best bike for someone like Gooner on the other thread? His weight is 80kgs, ex regular cyclist before his op. Now looking for a bike for leisure cycling about 10 miles radius.

Haibike sduro . 27.5 or 29.. CD ofcourse.

 

[flecc]

You mean the same SB motor in a 700 wheel pulling 700/800 W over 8 miles for 3/4 hour @ 12mph average unaided climb speed was identical to the 20" wheel setup the in the other post - my those batteries must have been good:

http://pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/epacsim.7822/#post-98389

From memory the speed was lower, more like slogging at 9mph or so and the gradient not steep. That Torq couldn't do steep anyway. At 12 mph the efficiency would have been nearer to optimum and I was certainly not at that. The battery was almost empty at the end which didn't matter since it was downhill all the way back home. None of my first three Li-ions lasted long, the worst killed at three months old but was relaced under warranty.

I'm not kind to my e-bikes!
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[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Where on earth do I put 3 batteries going up Mam Tor..( and no not there).

Posted it before but couple of weeks ago cycled up Pico Neulous, represented a vertical climb of 3800 ft.. Average speed 7.2 mph, Time to top 1hr 50..On a single 400wh battery..All off road,over shingle, rocks, boulders and nud....

Yes it represents battery empty ( it had 3% left) but at 4000 ft you have enough potential energy stored to cycle 40 miles unaided...

Flecc
I still think you are missing point about gearing. Yes in an ordinary road bike, with road tyres with plenty of pressure in them and bice smooth roads yes 2 speeds for emotor might be fine..
Throw in rock strewn paths, with bike running 2.5 inch tyres on 25 psi ( I,d go less if I could fit security bolts like on trials bike) or even 4 inch tyres as is getting popular now,, plus 2 inch deep mud, occasions 1 in 3 hill ( still covered as above) and motor to provide any real help ( especially if its only 250w) needs lowest gearing possible.
We are just not comparing like with like. Yes , hubs are probably fine climbers, my Mondeo is on the road..Xant compete with oldest land rover in world, even I it could get traction.

Simple thing is the crank drive has the adaptability to do both jobs. Perhaps on road climbs ( perhaps) the hub is superior. Off road crank every time.

 

[flecc]

Flecc
I still think you are missing point about gearing.

I'm not missing the point and have already posted to you before that for offroad there are some sound arguments for CD.

But the vast majority of e-bikers ride on the roads as I do, occasionally taking to a fairly smooth cycle path and never doing the rough stuff. That's what I'm posting about.
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[EddiePJ]

with bike running 2.5 inch tyres on 25 psi ( I,d go less if I could fit security bolts like on trials bike).

Have you considered going tubeless? It's worth every penny, especially when thinking about low tyre pressures. I frequently drop to roughly 18psi, and other than severe drag when things smooth out, I have yet to have any issues with tyre burping, slipping around the rim, pinch flats etc.
Having said that, the side walls on the Hutchinson tyres are exceptionally good as well.


.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

I'm not missing the point and have already posted to you before that for offroad there are some sound arguments for CD.

But the vast majority of e-bikers ride on the roads as I do, occasionally taking to a fairly smooth cycle path and never doing the rough stuff. That's what I'm posting about.
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Well that's why we are continually disagreeing. ( smilie)...
Not sure you are correct about the average buyer now. Suspect the demographic is changing..would be interesting to see recent sales figures, not long ago ebike mtb was very much a minority...seeing more and more in peaks and saw loads in France...
But fair point..

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Have you considered going tubeless? It's worth every penny, especially when thinking about low tyre pressures. I frequently drop to roughly 18psi, and other than severe drag when things smooth out, I have yet to have any issues with tyre burping, slipping around the rim, pinch flats etc.
Having said that, the side walls on the Hutchinson tyres are exceptionally good as well.


.

I,ll try those next time. My rear is just about shot after 200 miles !!! Going back to dealer for free check next week. I,ll try one.thanks.

 

[soundwave]

you need tubeless rims mind but you can get a kit if there not tl ready rims.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

I,ll have a chat with dealer...cheers Soundwave..

 

[shemozzle999]

Ifor offroad there are some sound arguments for CD.
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or one of these -memories of the good old days - just a knitted jumper and your off and away:

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Hi Flud,

I will check but I don't think I have said the Wisper drive system "is the same" as a Bosch system. I think my words were "a real alternative", and I stand by that remark. Both systems are operated by dual torque sensors and a cadence sensors. Both systems splice the information collected from the sensors to create a seamless riding experience.

All the best

David

David
I didn't say you said it was same. Your google listing says " a real alternative to Bosch" , suggesting its for same target audience...
Yes your bike is a great bike in its own right, but ( in my opinion) suggesting it as an alternative to Bosch CD misses good points of both bikes..

What's sales pitch for your Riese Muller mtb, a real alternative to a Wisper Torque ???
It confuses the the situation.
I,d have guessed target customer is completely different ??? But like many on here have said..." What do I know?"
Cheers.

 

[flecc]

or one of these -memories of the good old days - just a knitted jumper and your off and away:

Yes, happy memories, though trials were more my thing back then.
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