Folding electric bikes are all rubbish... apparently.

[bode]

Folding electric bikes are all rubbish... according to A2B Magazine.

 

[flecc]

They see folders as being easily transportable by rail and bus if they are to be any good, and that makes a lot of sense. Their basic complaint which they've often expressed is that electric versions are much too heavy for that purpose.

For a while the only e-folder they rated as any use was a fairly expensive Dahon model, but lately the Nano-Brompton won them over as the best to date, partly through its relatively low weight, partly through it's small fold.

In general they write off nearly all the Chinese e-folders, and I can't say I blame them. Those around 18/19 kilos are mostly cheapish rubbish with poor folds and difficult to carry, somewhat better ones can come in at weights like 23 to 25 kilos which is impractical for many to carry for any distance. Better ones often have weights and folds far to large to be usable, some even too heavy and big to easily get into a car boot.

As they have acknowledged, the technology really doesn't permit a light enough and small enough e-folder yet.
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[Ultra Motor]

I totally disagree and am quite disappointed in David for this article/blog. Its very clear that he is fond of his Brompton.

We can't get enough electric folders!!!

They are great for motorhomes, putting in the boot, I use mine on the train to go to London etc. Yes- they are heavy, but that doesn't rule them out.

If they were so rubbish an useless why does almost every electric bike brand have a model on offer? Lets be careful to criticise and rule them out

 

[bode]

It depends what you want from a folder. I have had mine for nearly two years now, and am still delighted with it. It may be heavier than the Bromptons and Dahons (though still less than most MTB types), but it is robust and steady at speed, and (this is why I bought it) folds easily to go in the boot to enable me to start a ride from somewhere other than where I live, adding a lot of variety to my trips.

 

[flecc]

Yes, for those of us who use an e-folder with a car or mobile home, a larger range of models are practical.

But of course the Henshaw family of A to B are a car free family and need their bikes to be easily usable on trains and buses. That means they must be carried by David and Jane who also have to carry little Orlando, and there's 10 year old Alexander who has to carry his own Brompton.

Not an untypical family, and clearly today's hefty e-folders are almost all unsuitable for them.
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[Morag]

I have an e folder I'm very happy with but I will freely admit I would not want to lug Wilma on and off a bus or train thanks everso. She's okay for shoving in the jeep for going different places but thats it.

 

[bode]

Yes, for those of us who use an e-folder with a car or mobile home, a larger range of models are practical.

But of course the Henshaw family of A to B are a car free family and need their bikes to be easily usable on trains and buses. That means they must be carried by David and Jane who also have to carry little Orlando, and there's 10 year old Alexander who has to carry his own Brompton.

Not an untypical family, and clearly today's hefty e-folders are almost all unsuitable for them.
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But surely a journalist shouldn't really dismiss a whole variety of folders just because they don't suit his own family and similar people. One thing this forum teaches is what a diversity of ebike usage there is in this country. And, admirable though it may be, just how typical is a car-free family these days?

 

[Ultra Motor]

But surely a journalist shouldn't really dismiss a whole variety of folders just because they don't suit his own family and similar people. One thing this forum teaches is what a diversity of ebike usage there is in this country. And, admirable though it may be, just how typical is a car-free family these days?

I agree- although the atob magazine is more of a blog of personal opinions than a magazine written by a journalist.

 

[daniel.weck]

Well, the problem is that the Brompton raised the bar so high in terms of foldability, that practically any other folding bike is really cumbersome in comparison.

So really, it has less to do with the current e-bike technology than with the folding capabilities.

For example, my DIY e-Brompton is based on the same technology as my wife's iZip Via Mezza Enlightened, yet I find the latter totally impractical as a folding bike (good enough for the occasional fold-in-the-car-trunk scenario, but it's unfolded most of the time) whereas the former remains superb as a folder and great as an electric bike.

Jerry Simon's home-made e-Brompton is lighter than mine, making it even more practical as a folder for short distances and for multimodal transport requiring frequent folding (which seems to be A2B's top priority).

Sad state of affairs, but there is simply not enough competition to the Brompton's folding genius. As for e-bike technology, there are existing ways to make it less intrusive within a folding bike package.

Cheers, Dan

 

[flecc]

But surely a journalist shouldn't really dismiss a whole variety of folders just because they don't suit his own family and similar people. One thing this forum teaches is what a diversity of ebike usage there is in this country. And, admirable though it may be, just how typical is a car-free family these days?

Mark's answer is spot on, David always writes from his personal point of view and circumstances. Basically he is on an eco crusade, hence the diverse magazine content, public transport and kit for use in association with that, solar power, car alternatives etc. Ergo, A to B is an eco propaganda magazine, not a cycling one.
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[Straylight]

Hmm, I take your point with regard that they may not take a populist point of view, but equally I think it's all too easy to dismiss a differing opinion as extremest propaganda. Just because someone decides to arrange their lifestyle in a non-mainstream fashion does not mean they forgo the right to express their own perspective.

Should we not ideally be treated as individuals, and not pigeonholed as 'one of them'?

Yes, the article's dismissive of most folding bikes, but so what? If we react defensively against any hint of criticism, aren't we in danger if being pigeonholed ourselves?

(That was 'thought for the day' with his 'right sanctimoniousness' Straylight )

 

[Old Timer]

Who Cares, we have two folders that serve the purpose we bought them for. If we had wanted to carry them around like a handbag it might be a different matter.
I give him the weight is a bit over the top but "rubbish"??? he obviously hasn`t ridden a Cyclamatic Folder

 

[flecc]

Hmm, I take your point with regard that they may not take a populist point of view, but equally I think it's all too easy to dismiss a differing opinion as extremest propaganda.

I'm certainly not being defensive and support David's right to express himself however he wishes. I'm just correctly classifying his position as an eco environmentalist. I don't see that position or it's expression in print as extremist in any way, just as a legitimate point of view with plenty of relevance in the present world.
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[flecc]

I give him the weight is a bit over the top but "rubbish"??? he obviously hasn`t ridden a Cyclamatic Folder

Be assured he's ridden many of it's ilk, few have greater knowledge than David with his long testing history on e-bikes and folders of all kinds.

Theres more to judging a folder than it's rideability, though even there the almost universal too low gearing of cheap Chinese models is widely acknowledged. There's the important matters of whether one has an efficient easy to operate catch to keep it folded when carried, whether carrying one balanced is easy or awkward, the weight of course, whether the chain when folded will soil ones clothing, the vulnerability of derailleur parts when folded and the speed of folding and unfolding. As Daniel has remarked, most don't come close to the Brompton unpowered or powered in those respects, the Cyclamatic certainly wont.
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[BertYardbrush]

It's a bit blinkered to believe that people only buy folders to travel on public transport. I have restricted storage space. My Quando just fits in a corner of the store room at my shop and my Dahon Cadenza pedal bike is in the 6 x 4 shed at the bottom of the garden with a load of other stuff.

 

[Old Timer]

Be assured he's ridden many of it's ilk, few have greater knowledge than David with his long testing history on e-bikes and folders of all kinds.

Theres more to judging a folder than it's rideability, though even there the almost universal too low gearing of cheap Chinese models is widely acknowledged. There's the important matters of whether one has an efficient easy to operate catch to keep it folded when carried, whether carrying one balanced is easy or awkward, the weight of course, whether the chain when folded will soil ones clothing, the vulnerability of derailleur parts when folded and the speed of folding and unfolding. As Daniel has remarked, most don't come close to the Brompton unpowered or powered in those respects, the Cyclamatic certainly wont.
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Oil on your legs and pinched fingers are all part of the fun Tony

 

[jerrysimon]

Wow this thread got big fast and given its content I have to chirp in

Been riding my DIY Brompton/Tongxin/A123 for almost 1000 miles now. Mine is pretty portable at 14kg bike in one hand and 3kg bag/battery in the other hand.

My battery is small 2.3mAh but gets me to work and back (10.25 miles) most days this year, without charging at work.

I fold and unfold it every day when I carry it into work, where it lives in my office till I return home.

I have to say my folder has transformed my daily commute to work. It gets me out into the fresh air every day, no traffic jams, lowered my monthly petrol cost and is stress free

As for folders its all down to your requirments. I could take mine on the train/tube/bus quite easily, but I am not sure I would want to carry it too far.

Brompton are reported to be working on a electric powered model

Regards

Jerry.

 

[jerrysimon]

PS meant to add its not so long ago, last issue of AtoB if I recall, here when David kicked off another discussion about us "windbags" here on the Pedelec forum

Its good the comment has generated discussion about folding electric bikes though.

Just noticed bode started that thread too. You stirrer

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

It's a bit blinkered to believe that people only buy folders to travel on public transport. I have restricted storage space. My Quando just fits in a corner of the store room at my shop and my Dahon Cadenza pedal bike is in the 6 x 4 shed at the bottom of the garden with a load of other stuff.

Same story here. Lack of storage space. When unused, my bikes live folded in a shed.

 

[flecc]

Same story here. Lack of storage space. When unused, my bikes live folded in a shed.

That is a minority need though, by far the biggest applications for folders in general is travelling with public transport, the secondary application travelling with ones own motor vehicle, boat or aircraft.

For electric folders the order of those probably reverses, travelling with an e-folder in ones own vehicle being more common than travelling on public transport with an e-folder.
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