Getting fit again on a Cyclotricity Stealth

[Steve Hall]

Hi annie,
I am sure Hatti can speak for herself but I think it's worth adding a couple of points. Modern Lithium batteries do not need conditioning. You should read this article about how to prolong the life of your battery:
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
Lithium moves from the negative electrode (cathode) to the positive electrode (anode) when you ride your bike and moves the other way when you put your battery on charge. It follows that charging too much or discharging too much are equally harmful to your battery because the anode will swell up with Lithum metal when you put the battery into deep discharge, the cathode will swell if you prolong charging after the battery is full. That is why batteries are only 40% full when you get your bike.
Conditioning (I should say reconditioning) should only be done using the right equipment. The battery is slowly discharged to 31V then slowly charged back to full (40V). The equipment will verify the capacity of your battery at the same time and if successful, also run test cycles to make sure that your battery can cope with the requirement of your bike.

What about the bottle battery? It says in my maunual to leave it on charge whenever you are not on the bike. Will this harm the battery? If its a problem why don't they just make a charger that cuts out when the green light comes on??

 

[trex]

I can't comment on what people write. When the charger senses the voltage getting to 42V, the charging light will go 'full' , usually green. According to battery uviversity, your battery will live longer if you switch the charger off after the charging light goes green. As to conditioning, I have not come across any simple foolproof way that you can discharge your battery safely.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What about the bottle battery? It says in my maunual to leave it on charge whenever you are not on the bike. Will this harm the battery? If its a problem why don't they just make a charger that cuts out when the green light comes on??

I think what they mean is to charge it after every time you use it rather than leave it on charge all the time. IMHO battery conditioning is not necessary.

 

[Geo13647]

I think what they mean is to charge it after every time you use it rather than leave it on charge all the time. IMHO battery conditioning is not necessary.

That seems to be the common thought nowadays, however, once you come back from a ride, get a cup of tea or your favourite tipple, before you put the battery on charge. Charging a hot battery (and they can get very hot) WILL shorten the battery life. NEVER leave anything on charge unattended.
I do disagree with leaving battery chargers on continuously, it's not necessary, and can be a hazard. You may also find that your insurance wil not cover you in this case, worth checking. just my own opinion. Regards, Geo...

 

[Woosh]

Hi Hatti

I'm taking care of the battery as per your manual. Being a woman, I always read and follow instructions lol.
I was curious as to why some bottle batteries had to be conditioned and others had not.

Hi anniegirl,

Just to reassure you that the bottle battery on the Sport is a good one, with quality (expensive) Samsung cells. Would advise against doing anything that might damage it - if in doubt or you have more queries pm or email me, no problem.

Hatti

 

[flecc]

What about the bottle battery? It says in my maunual to leave it on charge whenever you are not on the bike. Will this harm the battery? If its a problem why don't they just make a charger that cuts out when the green light comes on??

It depends on where the charge is cut off. With the NiMh batteries that we used to use, it was the job of a thermistor in the battery to signal to the charger that it had reached full charge temperature so it was time to cut off the charge. Therefore the cut off circuit was in the charger, which in that respect was a "smart" charger.

Lithium batteries on our ebikes need cell by cell individual protection so the battery has an internal management system (BMS). That cuts the charge when the battery cells are all fully charged and balanced, leaving nowhere for the charger's current to go so the charger just shows it's full light, making it not a smart charger.

You can see the problem, if the charger cut it's own charging function on it's green light indication, it could never start charging in the first place! Of course some other way could be arranged in addition for the battery to tell the charger to physically switch off, but that would add to the costs and complexity and give something else to go wrong.

The logic of the advice you have with your battery is that the battery loses charge slightly when standing by, due to the BMS using a little current to do it's job. When the charge drops low enough, the BMS will switch the charging back in so your connected charger will then restart the charging to top the battery back up. That might seem ok, but there are two downsides. First is that the number of charging starts increases which can very slightly reduce the battery life, second is the safety risk of leaving a high current system device switched on all the time, since failure is possible and fires from this source are not unknown.
.

 

[Steve Hall]

Replies to all who posted with regards to our batteries, thank you, I am going to buy a wall socket timer. I now know it takes about 4.5 hours to charge the battery, so each time I plug to charge I will set the timer to switch off at the wall socket after five hours. To be on the safe side, I will also tell the local fire brigade and warn the wife.

 

[flecc]

To be on the safe side, I will also tell the local fire brigade and warn the wife.

Seriously, there have been many hundreds of fires caused by Lithium batteries and in one case an entire home burned down. Some, including me, refer to high capacity batteries of all kinds as household bombs, such is their energy content. One only has to ask the fire brigades about the many cars burnt out every year when a fault causes their batteries to discharge all that energy quickly to realise how dangerous large batteries can be.

Large lithium batteries cannot be sent by air as another example, following a near disaster on one aircraft.

 

[Geo13647]

Seriously, there have been many hundreds of fires caused by Lithium batteries and in one case an entire home burned down. Some, including me, refer to high capacity batteries of all kinds as household bombs, such is their energy content. One only has to ask the fire brigades about the many cars burnt out every year when a fault causes their batteries to discharge all that energy quickly to realise how dangerous large batteries can be.
Large lithium batteries cannot be sent by air as another example, following a near disaster on one aircraft.

Yup - one exploding Lithium battery was one too many - luckily nobody was injured and the damage was minimal - new pair of breeks needed tho. the noise & explosion is just like a bomb (well it is a bomb).

Always treat batteries with care. Any sign of damage or bulges - do not charge - dispose of properly.

Geo...

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Despite this Dreamliner thought having lithium batteries incoporated into their new aircraft was a good idea

 

[hopper_rider]

Yup - one exploding Lithium battery was one too many - luckily nobody was injured and the damage was minimal - new pair of breeks needed tho. the noise & explosion is just like a bomb (well it is a bomb).

Always treat batteries with care. Any sign of damage or bulges - do not charge - dispose of properly.

Geo...

Theres plenty of youtube videos to prove this point.

 

[Steve Hall]

Yup - one exploding Lithium battery was one too many - luckily nobody was injured and the damage was minimal - new pair of breeks needed tho. the noise & explosion is just like a bomb (well it is a bomb).

Always treat batteries with care. Any sign of damage or bulges - do not charge - dispose of properly.

Geo...

You may also find that your insurance wil not cover you in this case, worth checking. just my own opinion. Regards, Geo...

Since I am now to ring the insurance company to check for cover on exploding batteries. I wonder if my insurance will also cover me for the explosions the wife makes with this bowl problem of hers. ..

Anyone know any good bike insurance places?

 

[hopper_rider]

Since I am now to ring the insurance company to check for cover on exploding batteries. I wonder if my insurance will also cover me for the explosions the wife makes with this bowl problem of hers. ..

Anyone know any good bike insurance places?

Is that really bowl or is there a missing 'e'.
If its meant to be bowl, I guess its a bit hit and miss eating at your house

 

[flecc]

Anyone know any good bike insurance places?

This post that I made previously gives links to threads with many e-bike insurance recommendations Steve.

 

[Steve Hall]

Is that really bowl or is there a missing 'e'.
If its meant to be bowl, I guess its a bit hit and miss eating at your house

Why do you think I am so fat, there's only so many egg and chips one can eat. Really though, this bike exercise is doing me some real good. A girl in the office said, 'It looks like you have lost some weight'... Hey...so what's going on here then, she never noticed me bofore...I wonder if I am in there...Ha Ha Ha... finally after 25 years, the wife has competition.

 

[Steve Hall]

This post that I made previously gives links to threads with many e-bike insurance recommendations Steve.

Thank you Flecc, I also looked at one of those KTM's, that is one quality looking bike. If only I could stick to an hobby for more than 1 month.

 

[hopper_rider]

Why do you think I am so fat, there's only so many egg and chips one can eat. Really though, this bike exercise is doing me some real good. A girl in the office said, 'It looks like you have lost some weight'... Hey...so what's going on here then, she never noticed me bofore...I wonder if I am in there...Ha Ha Ha... finally after 25 years, the wife has competition.

Note to dealers....
Good selling point aimed at 'middle aged men'.
Additional note to contact solicitors to advise them of extra divorce business you may be sending their way and make them aware of your products at the same time.

 

[Steve Hall]

I wonder what happened to my new found friend Artstu, he hasn't posted today. He was guiding me along with choosing some excellent gears. I am still struggling getting used to these things, 21 gears and I have only used three or four, today I moved two far down the change and the chain came off; although it was very easy to put back on, I just can't get the hang of them.

 

[103Alex1]

I wonder what happened to my new found friend Artstu, he hasn't posted today. He was guiding me along with choosing some excellent gears. I am still struggling getting used to these things, 21 gears and I have only used three or four, today I moved two far down the change and the chain came off; although it was very easy to put back on, I just can't get the hang of them.

Derailleurs can take a great deal of getting used to - do you have 3 front chainrings (by the pedals) and a 7sp rear cassette ? If so, I've only ever used a 9sp or 10sp cassette (27 - 30 gears) so not the best person to comment, but :

The smallest front ring is sometimes known as the 'granny ring' - and it's used for easier climbing up those 'mountain slopes' especially under own power when you've not the strength or fitness to manage it on the middle ring. I kept mine on derailleur bike only to have there for use when riding unpowered. It's especially helpful if something goes wrong and you've got to pedal back up hills under your own power.

The middle front ring is the one most people use often in flattish terrain and works well in those conditions.

The big one is murder uphill but it's especially useful for getting that push to race at faster and faster speeds above assist levels on a downhill sprint. You just work your way up / down the cassette having set the front chainring appropriate to the relevant terrain - and your fitness levels / motor power.

The big chainring is also useful with powerful hub motors - as high gearing helps you keep up with them.

So just set front chainring level first then work within the gears according to the terrain you're riding in and how fast you want to push the bike.

 

[Steve Hall]

Derailleurs can take a great deal of getting used to - do you have 3 front chainrings (by the pedals) and a 7sp rear cassette ? If so, I've only ever used a 9sp or 10sp cassette (27 - 30 gears) so not the best person to comment, but :

The smallest front ring is sometimes known as the 'granny ring' - and it's used for easier climbing up those 'mountain slopes' especially under own power when you've not the strength or fitness to manage it on the middle ring. I kept mine on derailleur bike only to have there for use when riding unpowered. It's especially helpful if something goes wrong and you've got to pedal back up hills under your own power.

The middle front ring is the one most people use often in flattish terrain and works well in those conditions.

The big one is murder uphill but it's especially useful for getting that push to race at faster and faster speeds above assist levels on a downhill sprint. You just work your way up / down the cassette having set the front chainring appropriate to the relevant terrain - and your fitness levels / motor power.

The big chainring is also useful with powerful hub motors - as high gearing helps you keep up with them.

So just set front chainring level first then work within the gears according to the terrain you're riding in and how fast you want to push the bike.

I like the middle big cogg and the smallest back, even on the hills, it seems to give me more power on asssit No 5 I can really move upthe hills. Due to my weight and the lack of excersise over the years, I get tired quick and then find myself moving up the rear coggs. Would I be better at that point, instead of moving up the rear coggs to drop down a centre cogg?