Hi, i have CFS, wondering if an ebike is right for me and which type?

[RoverT]

I ride a regular bike but only to go to shops and occasionally into town. The main issue is post-exertion malaise which impacts me for several days afterward. Looking for ways to mitigate that and be able to go further. Also potentially commute as I'm exploring returning to work so it's important that the bike reduces the impact of riding as much as possible.

The Westhill looks like a great option and the reviews are great but I'm also curious about a compact fold-up one i could take on buses and trains with me like this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electric-NEOFOLD-Foldable-Rechargeable-electric/dp/B071VJD67R/ref=pd_sbs_200_3?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=BS9KTKXWKEZ92NRAZ9Z0

The other option is to buy a kit for my bike, it's a Kona fire mountain which I've had for years and is a rock solid bike (cheap Suntour fork but it's not like I go offroad much) but what would be the right kit to give the freedom to ride more and what are the pros and cons? Obviously, i am familiarity with my bike and it's well set up for me, good frame size and fairly lightweight. Would also be good if the kit didn't add too much weight. Anyway I can upload pics of the bike if needed.

The final option is to get a decent e-bike used. The budget would £1,000 and below, preferably lower but I know you need you be looking around 1k for something decent. I would like throttle or level assist anyway and decent mileage hence the Westhill. Can you trade in mtbs for an e-bike?

And finally, anywhere you can rent an e-bike from? I think that about covers it, cheers!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Amazon thing is totally illegal because it has no pedals.

A lightweight kit (Q100 motor) with a 20-cell battery adds about 3.5kg to your bike. You can get Insat to make the battery for you that fits in a little toolbag under the seat. A 40-cell battery would obviously give you double the range with double the weight, or a 30-cell battery is half-way. Most ready-made batteries are 40 or 50 cells. One of those with a normal hub-motor adds about 7kg to your bike.

 

[Woosh]

I may have the bike you are looking for within your budget. Bikes come with different sized frames and motors: small motor for riders under 13st, medium sized for 13st-15st and large for over 15st. They all have throttle.
Would you mind let us know your height and how much you weigh?

 

[Benjahmin]

With your condition you need a bike with PAS rather than a torque sensor. Pas will continue to deliver power whilst the peddles are just gently rotated - no force applied. It then matters not if you have a throttle. A torque sensor needs you to apply effort to get any assist. Many throttles now only operate up to 6K/h, though some can be 'reprogrammed' to give a full 25K/h.

 

[Woosh]

let's clarify the issue of throttle. As far as I know, they are only fitted to about half of the Chinese made bikes, so the vast majority (75% plus) of e-bikes do not have throttle. The law is the same for all those fitted with throttle: suppliers cannot supply a bike with 'twist and go' throttle without separate certification.
The law applies only to suppliers. If you, as a user, want to have a twist and go throttle, then you can, the same way that kit builders can have a twist and go throttle if they so wish.
Suppliers can only fit three types of throttle which comply with the law:
1) limited to 'walking speed' 4mph, otherwise known as walk assist
2) only activated after you pedal a bit (so it's not twist and go) and can go up to 15.5mph but you have to pedal now and then to reactivate it after a few seconds.
3) retrofit, unpluggable and switchable. It is up to the users to use it or not. This has to be made clear, so there is no misunderstanding. In this case, the throttle is usually supplied but not fitted.

 

[RoverT]

The Amazon thing is totally illegal because it has no pedals.

A lightweight kit (Q100 motor) with a 20-cell battery adds about 3.5kg to your bike. You can get Insat to make the battery for you that fits in a little toolbag under the seat. A 40-cell battery would obviously give you double the range with double the weight, or a 30-cell battery is half-way. Most ready-made batteries are 40 or 50 cells. One of those with a normal hub-motor adds about 7kg to your bike.

Thanks for the info. If i have a PAS system or throttle would weight be issue?

If so i may be as well getting a bike that's lighter that mine would be with the kit and either keep the kona or replace it with the ebike.

I want a good kit with decent mileage on a charge and good speed. Plan is to rely on the motor as much as possible on bad days.

 

[RoverT]

I may have the bike you are looking for within your budget. Bikes come with different sized frames and motors: small motor for riders under 13st, medium sized for 13st-15st and large for over 15st. They all have throttle.
Would you mind let us know your height and how much you weigh?

5'11" and i'm definitely under 13st! One thing i like about the kona is its a small frame; 18" i think. Shimano deore etc so decent components.

Anyway hit me with what you've got. I'm still on the fence regarding e-bikes and am considering an electric scooter.

 

[RoverT]

With your condition you need a bike with PAS rather than a torque sensor. Pas will continue to deliver power whilst the peddles are just gently rotated - no force applied. It then matters not if you have a throttle. A torque sensor needs you to apply effort to get any assist. Many throttles now only operate up to 6K/h, though some can be 'reprogrammed' to give a full 25K/h.

That sounds ideal, assistance all the way through so i can go further and use a lot less energy in the process...

 

[topographer]

That sounds ideal, assistance all the way through so i can go further and use a lot less energy in the process...

I have a Woosh bike with a throttle. If you have no energy you can do this with it: Put it in 1st gear, pedal half a rotation (which is ultra easy in 1st) to make the throttle available, then just buzz around on throttle like a moped. That's what I do. You will get less mileage if you're not helping it out by pedalling of course. But you may not need to go to those extremes. If the bike's on full power and you're doing easy pedalling you may find that's all you need. You should go to a bike shop and try some bikes out. That will clarify things for you.

 

[RoverT]

I have a Woosh bike with a throttle. If you have no energy you can do this with it: Put it in 1st gear, pedal half a rotation (which is ultra easy in 1st) to make the throttle available, then just buzz around on throttle like a moped. That's what I do. You will get less mileage if you're not helping it out by pedalling of course. But you may not need to go to those extremes. If the bike's on full power and you're doing easy pedalling you may find that's all you need. You should go to a bike shop and try some bikes out. That will clarify things for you.

Hey, that sounds ideal! Sounds almost like those peddle and pop bikes thy had in the 80s!

Ok so i've been doing some research and the bike that looks reasonably good is the Greenedge CS2 which s throttle but what i'm curious about is which bikes also make good mountain bikes as well as ebikes, that i'm not too savvy on. I really like the look of this one, good range of options as well but it's not road legal... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2018-model-Pedalease-electric-mountain-bike-48v-750w-mid-drive-motor-Lithium/272914841614?epid=1646053925&hash=item3f8afe000e:m:m8XAryjsR4yo9jqvz4BeDbg

But i'm not too au fait with brands etc and i know there are compromises under 1k so is it worth also looking in the used market? Finally looking at conversion would cost as much as an ebike afaict and be a lot of work, correct?

I'm definitely getting a bike next month, it's just finding the right one. The West Hill was my original choice but i've also been looking at those Urb-E type bikes which could be ideal for travelling on buses and trains etc...

There are also some nice looking scooters for commuting etc but i guess standing and controlling could be quite fatiguing eventually. Ok i think that covers it. Thanks for all the great info so far...

 

[soundwave]

well as mtb go you get what you pay for so for 1k you are not going to get much bike wise esp for of road use as all the parts will be bottom end and the most expensive part will be the batt in that case.

second hand is a option but budget will have to go up if you want a brand name frame like this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2017-Mondraker-E-Prime-R-Electric-MTB-e-Bike-27-5-Mountain-Bike-ex-demo/122837324170?hash=item1c99acd18a:g:IDgAAOSwDkVaIHv~
or
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KTM-Macina-Force-293-e-Bike-Mountain-bike-Bosch-drive-Perfomance-CX-100mm-Travel/192381122633?epid=27006954221&hash=item2ccacef849:g:WaoAAOSw2FxZ3L-U

but again the parts of the bike are bottom of the range but could be upgraded if needed but not so much on a bike that cost 200 quid new and motor batt added to it.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/forums/electric-bike-classifieds.3/

 

[RoverT]

In that case i'll throw it wide open... I'm not really sold on the design of commuter bikes but my priority is to get out and about, I may well be commuting soon and it's possible I could get the cycle to work discount, oh i also have an NUS card fwiw. btw i'm not taking about full blown off road but a hard tail would be a good for htting the occasional dirt trail.

Tbh i think my kona with a kit would be a better bike! 12 years and still going strong...Now if i could trade it in that could be another option...

 

[topographer]

Pedalease don't have a good reputation on here. Soundwave is a bit of an extremist; he probably thinks your Kona is a piece of dung. The Greenedge is a decent affordable bike as is the Cyclamatic CX3 for £660. Woosh do some nice MTBs for around your budget. I suppose the advantage of the Greenedge is you can try it out in Halfords and also take it in to them if you have a problem.

You could turn the Kona into a nice ebike with d8veh's suggestion above. The Q100 has good torque and is very quiet. This is probably your best route but it'll likely mean buying some stuff from China and waiting a few weeks.

 

[Nealh]

+1 regarding Pedalease avoid them as CS is very very poor, no tel number and email replies non existent though they are happy to take your money in the first place.

Greenedge probably give it a miss, issues with bad battery contacts and melting plastic battery receiver has caused problems though replacement under warranty seems good.

Cyclamtic is good value for the price and appears to be quite reliable and fairly bullet proof, as time goes by you can always upgrade com components if you need to.

You can disreguard SW a lot of the time as he often has issues with any parts that are 10x cheaper then he would wants to pay for them. A cheap bike will get you out and about just as an expensive one will, afford what you can and don't worry about others bragging rights and views.

I had a front BPM kit not being used after trying another bike kit, so got a cheap Kona Blast frame off ebay and built it up with spare parts I had, stuck the BPM on it and it gets me out and about for winter mud rides on the North/South Downs and any where else I care . 51 miles to and back from the north downs on Wednesday, probably one of the muddiest rides I have encountered to date. All good fun though .

 

[Nealh]

Tbh i think my kona with a kit would be a better bike! 12 years and still going strong...Now if i could trade it in that could be another option...

To convert will cost about £500 and the ability to be able to fettle and fit the kit to your existing bike.
The CX3 only £160 more the only real upgrade might be to change the front brake lever /calliper for a Hydraulic one for about £30 and 5 minutes or so to swap it over. The bike will be ideal and do exactly what your existing bike will do.
A hub motor with PAS pedal sensor is the way forward for easier relaxing pedal input.

https://www.thesportshq.com/cyclamatic-cx3-pro-power-plus-alloy-frame-ebike.aspx

 

[Deleted member 4366]

In case you're tempted by it, the Cyclamatic CX1 is a lot cheaper. It works, but the pedal assist function is not as good as the CX3. I would pay the extra for the CX3.

 

[Woosh]

well as mtb go you get what you pay for so for 1k you are not going to get much bike wise esp for of road use as all the parts will be bottom end and the most expensive part will be the batt in that case.

second hand is a option but budget will have to go up if you want a brand name frame like this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2017-Mondraker-E-Prime-R-Electric-MTB-e-Bike-27-5-Mountain-Bike-ex-demo/122837324170?hash=item1c99acd18a:g:IDgAAOSwDkVaIHv~
or
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KTM-Macina-Force-293-e-Bike-Mountain-bike-Bosch-drive-Perfomance-CX-100mm-Travel/192381122633?epid=27006954221&hash=item2ccacef849:g:WaoAAOSw2FxZ3L-U

but again the parts of the bike are bottom of the range but could be upgraded if needed but not so much on a bike that cost 200 quid new and motor batt added to it.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/forums/electric-bike-classifieds.3/

SW,
none of them can have a throttle fitted.
The OP needs it.

 

[TheGnarlyCenturion]

Hiya there RoverT,

I also have CFS - full blown. Gone from a cyclist racer to full on bed worm, nasty stuff. Just beggining to get out now and have built myself a Bafang BBSHD based build. You are absolutely on the right track with an electric bike - it has made such a difference!

A WORD OF CAUTION: I underestimated the effects of stress on my CFS, so I can only use a fraction of the banfangs power, too much and what used to excite me (speed) no leaves me in a tired mess. Hoever, I view the system as an invesment for the future - it's not just for now, it's for as I get better, so I hope to use all its potential.

What does the electric bike mean to you? Is it a small quick help, or you do envisage doing big rides/sportives/adventures with family/friends?

The two main options in my mind:

A uber cheap - proven - kit from BMSBattery (probably the Q100) will set you back about £250 inc. battery. Great for now, and the future, providing you needs dont change.

Something more powerful - a range of options from EM3ev - great battery and motor options (both hub and mid drive) and top notch communication/backup. Range from £500-1500 depending on your choice!

 

[Nealh]

Hiya there RoverT,


A uber cheap - proven - kit from BMSBattery (probably the Q100) will set you back about £250 inc. battery. Great for now, and the future, providing you needs dont change.

£250 !!! and the rest, a decent battery with any range is min £240.

 

[TheGnarlyCenturion]

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/571-36v10ah-right-off-bottle-battery-pack-with-charger-battery.html

You can get more range by switching battery composition. However, I'd argue strongly for only getting Lion batteries.

Then again, this is only 10Ah, but it gets you out the blocks!

EDIT: I think it's important to understand the needs of the end user. I spent about £500 on my first/only battery because I wanted max range, 52V, reliability, and long battery life. Crucially, this is because I plan to use the battery on lots of projects, for lots of uses, over a long time.

Casual ebike use, first build, actually I feel it makes more sense to get a battery like then one linked and then go from there.