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Lack of Oxygen

Discussion in 'Electric Bicycles' started by RobF, Nov 4, 2012.

  1.  
    RobF

    RobF Pedelecer

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    Ebike selling is a strange business.

    In August of this year I more or less decided the Oxygen Emate City was the ebike for me.

    None in stock, and I was quoted October as the delivery date.

    In September I learn production is being moved to Poland and there will be no bikes until at least the New Year, possibly March/April.

    Thus we have a bike company which looks like it will not sell a bike for up to six or seven months.

    For me as a prospective customer, Oxygen is off the list because there must be a chance March/April turns into never.

    If the Polish bikes do arrive, they will be a different spec to the bike I selected in August.

    With such a dodgy supply chain, what chance do the dealers have of establishing Oxygen as a brand?

    As I said, ebike selling is a strange business.
     
  2.  
    eddieo

    eddieo Banned

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    these things happen when companies restructure their operations I quess......Not as if there are not any just as good, and better bikes around to choose from.
     
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    flecc

    flecc Member

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    There's a lot of this throughout the whole cycling trade, though the usual reason is the long lead time for supplies. Orders to components companies like Shimano need to be well in advance and even in the preceding year to ensure a bike manufacturer has supplies, so in turn retailers and importers are expected to furnish details of their next year requirements to the bike manufacturers. If they underestimate, which in our very variable climate and market is easy to do, they can be stuck for months with nothing. Conversely overestimating often leads to Autumn/Winter sales to clear stock ready for the new model year, some of those running currently after this year's rotten weather poor sales.

    Given the variables that affect cycling, weather, the economy, sudden political changes like the congestion charge introduction and reporting of cycling accident rates, getting pre-order levels right verges on the impossible. For years the motor industry dealt with this by stockpiling vast numbers of cars in fields, but that's been changing more recently and waits of up to six months for listed models can occur now. In a few cases they've even introduced manufacture to individual order only.
     
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    d8veh

    d8veh Pedelecer

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    Would you be interested in an ex-demo one? I was talking to Anrew a couple of days ago and he said something about having one. If that's what you want, try contacting him directly.
    Oxygen Electric Bicycles
     
  5.  
    RobF

    RobF Pedelecer

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    Thanks for the tip.

    I'm strictly a leisure cyclist, so unless I happen across something irresistible, purchase is unlikely to happen until the return of warmer weather and longer days.
     
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    Oxygen Bicycles

    Oxygen Bicycles Trade Member

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    I can confirm we will have a badge of Oxygen's arriving early January. There will be change in specs but those components that have changed are upgraded to a better ones. Currently have on upgrade brakes to Avid BB7, Dapu motor M155 with cassette, new LCD display. Not sure who advised you on the April delivery.

    We are indeed designing new facility in Poland but this is now being organised independently to the far east facility. If you want to still reserve yours with delivery early Jan please let me know
    Regards

    Andrew
     
  7.  
    Kudoscycles

    Kudoscycles Official Trade Member

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    Rob,dealing with China is particularly difficult at this moment. I know that you were refering to bikes being relocated to Poland but the components still have to come from China,Shimano deliveries are 3 months minimum,its hard to replace that supplier.
    On our auto side(over 50 suppliers from China)we have to now keep minimum 12 months stock of every product,we are seriously considering upping this to 18 months.
    Similarly on the cycle side the timescale is becoming very extended,in an ideal world I should be allowing 6 months delivery but this is becoming 9 months,we have to stock minimum 500 bikes to keep the flow going,thats really too many. For new products from conception to receiving samples,testing,making changes,bulk stock shipping its now really 12 months. Its very frustrating and for some companies they cannot afford the wait,I am already working on 2014 product ideas.
    Not sure why the asian supply lines are so extended at present,the changes of the premier and the steering commitee is causing uncertainty and the chinese property bubble is causing liquidity problems,maybe other members have their own ideas.
    One of the problems of moving production to Europe is you are still reliant on supply lines from Asia-you cannot produce a bike until you have every component in place and one part can stop your production. Of course this also happens in China but the chinese have the advantage that suppliers are on their doorstep for chasing and often alternatives are readily available.
    These long delivery times are good for Rally Design because we often have the stock where others are exhausted.
    Dave
    Kudoscycles
     
  8.  
    RobF

    RobF Pedelecer

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    Andrew,

    Thanks for the prompt reply, which I hope will be informative to other prospective Oxygen customers as well as me.

    One thing I hope you've sorted is the twist grip gear changer indicator.

    The bike I tried had '1' as the fastest/highest gear and '7' as the lowest.

    Might have been because it was on the left, but still a bit ropey on £1,400 bike.

    It didn't put me off - there was something nicely sorted about the ride of the City and the assistance cut in and out more smoothly than a couple of other bikes I tried.

    I'm not minded to reserve any bike, but when I seriously set about buying one in the New Year I shall be looking at Oxygen first.
     
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    eddieo

    eddieo Banned

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    Hmmm......Dapu motor? will have to dig out earlier comments where you criticised these motors. Funny that, as all users including me seem to like them. Sounding more like a Wisper product day by day:confused::p

    seriously though, as long as it leads to a better bike, with better componants that is is all that matters
     
  10.  
    RobF

    RobF Pedelecer

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    Dave,

    Insightful as ever.

    Seems to me the position can be summed up in one word - cashflow.

    Kudos can always have bikes available presumably because your other businesses help finance the stock.

    A business solely reliant on ebike sales is going to struggle to have enough money to place the rate and volume of advance orders needed to ensure stock at all times.
     
    #10 RobF, Nov 4, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
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    Kudoscycles

    Kudoscycles Official Trade Member

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    Rob, One of our bikes has the Shimano twist grip as you describe-from memory I think it is the Deore 9 system-I challenged a Shimano rep at Eurobike and he just said,...'Yes,thats the way it was designed',a bit arrogant really,I didnt get any more from him!
    But that Deore 9 system is a really robust derailleur,so its a shame not to use it more,bit strange really.Putting it on the left or right makes no difference-that was my initial thought that we had put it on upside down!
    You do get used to it!
    Dave
    Kudoscycles
     
    #11 Kudoscycles, Nov 4, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  12.  
    Kudoscycles

    Kudoscycles Official Trade Member

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    Rob,you also have understanding of what this business is about. Any ebike supplier who is busy at the moment would be unusual-who would buy a bike now with this awful weather we are currently experiencing.
    You are absolutely right that there are a number of 'sugar daddies' in this business,the ebike side supported by other businesses. The smaller importers tend to buy for the spring,purposely underestimate their potential sales,then order for the spring of the following year so as not to carry too much stock in the autumn/winter-an intelligent person would appreciate that.
    Kudos is low on some stock at present,we are trying to balance stock against new product due in the spring. One of our products on the auto side is coil springs for race cars,there are 120 different rates/sizes,minimum order 200 pieces per size,delivery 9 months but quality from OEM supplier is superb,we hold over 20,000 coils in stock to supply many of the small race car teams on a 24hour delivery basis,we are proud we rarely let teams down but it is difficult.
    On the ebike side we are all hoping for volumes to rise,an often quoted word is 'potential'!
    Dave
    Kudoscycles
     
  13.  
    Oxygen Bicycles

    Oxygen Bicycles Trade Member

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    Yes Dave that is truth that some of the raw parts i.e raw frame will come from Far East but Poland makes more components for e-bikes which are made in the country and not being imported. The best example of it are batteries, all Bosch and Kalkhoff Derby Cycle packs now are made in Poland and the difference in quality is just massive. Frames will be painted in Poland too in the most modern painting facility available in Europe. We also have availability to more more parts from Shimano, Schwalbe etc which will just give us better speced product.

    Andrew
     
  14.  
    Oxygen Bicycles

    Oxygen Bicycles Trade Member

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    Yes Eddie you have a very good memory. If you dig more you'll see that those comments were made quite a while ago. Whoever was in the industry knew very well what was wrong with Dapu and we have several times pointed ut to Fumio's team what was wrong. The Dapu team however has listened very well to the feedback provided and have improved greatly over the past year which I was very pleased with. There are many good motors right now on the market but the main reason why we have to move to Dapu is that our Far East facility has adopted Dapu motors for other very big OEM client and by carrying on with our existing motors we would simply have a bottle neck in our supply chain. Our volume would be too small and lead time too long as a result so it's either a situation of you take Dapu or face huge delays. Dapu motors are so far the most expensive but the price reflects now on the quality of finish and performance.

    With your comments re Wisper. Seriously Eddie, if you want to put more spanners into works then feel free to do that. To be clear if we were to follow a brand I can assure you it certainly wouldn't be a Wisper or any other UK brand. I gave my reasons as to why we have to use Dapu now and whether you accept it or not, clearly up to you.

    all the best

    Andrew
     
  15.  
    halfer

    halfer Pedelecer

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    Hi Andrew

    I'm considering the Oxygen brand at the moment, possibly City 2012. I presume this uses the Dapu motor also. Would you mind explaining what the issue was, and how this has been improved?

    I'm inclined to be careful around bike electrics at present. While my old Juicy Sport 2010 is in a different price bracket to the Oxygen bikes, nevertheless the Suzhou Bafang is popular right across the low and mid spectrum. I had the motor - 8-Fun I think - fail a few months outside of warranty. The replacement promptly blew up the old controller, and last month I had another electrical fault that stopped the drive system working correctly. I wonder that I might have just been unlucky, since that system seems quite well-regarded here. But, obviously, I don't want to go from one problem system to another :)

    Incidentally, have you a web link to the new specs? Would be interested to take a peek, if they are available.
     
  16.  
    Oxygen Bicycles

    Oxygen Bicycles Trade Member

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    Hi Halfer,

    Our 2012 use our own Oxygen motors, the new 2013 will have a new Dapu M155. Powerwise they are very similar but Dapu can finally use the the cassette instead of the freewheel. Don't want to get too much into Dapu older versions which mainly were very noisy and had some starting performance issues. The new Dapu range has been totally redesigned and all older issues have been solved now.

    Re the Bafang drives we also were using those for quite a while. These are great motors but we decided to drop them due to unsatisfactory support from 8Fun management. With your controller failing you were rather unlucky i say.

    Andrew
     
  17.  
    eddieo

    eddieo Banned

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    well.....I have been running a bike with dapush motor for 18 months with superb XT 27 speed gear set and its a brilliant set up. most powerful motor I have ever ridden..... many with Wisper alpino (same system) seem more then happy with performance...maybe eventually you will come up with an original idea.
     
    #17 eddieo, Nov 4, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
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    Oxygen Bicycles

    Oxygen Bicycles Trade Member

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    You are still a very young man Eddie and only read the news from one newspaper, good night :)
     
  19.  
    halfer

    halfer Pedelecer

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    Thanks Andrew :)
     
  20.  
    eddieo

    eddieo Banned

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    Since I bought my last FINE Wisper product, I have also bought a KTM Bosch powered Macina street bike, and more recently another Bosch powered AVE MH7. So where do you get of with the patronising idea that I am one dimensional or partisan? I speak as I find....
     

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