Magic Pie kits and Alien Ocean

[NeilP]

Hi All

I was considering building up a bike using the magic Pie 'off road' kit as advertised on the Alien Ocean web site as it seemed a good bit of kit.

But have since read a few posts on here that seem to say the Magic Pie kits are a bit 'old technology'

I have sent a few mails to the Alien Ocean contact/support e-mail address, asking a few questions about the kit, (rear frame width required, could it be 're dished' to take different cassettes etc) but a week or more has passed and I have received no response from them at all.

So what is the general opinion of these kits? and what sort of after sales service and help can be expected from them once they have your money...going on their responses to my e-mails to them so far, I gues it would not be that great

Any advice appreciated

Thanks

Neil

 

[NRG]

Hi All

I was considering building up a bike using the magic Pie 'off road' kit as advertised on the Alien Ocean web site as it seemed a good bit of kit.

But have since read a few posts on here that seem to say the Magic Pie kits are a bit 'old technology'

I have sent a few mails to the Alien Ocean contact/support e-mail address, asking a few questions about the kit, (rear frame width required, could it be 're dished' to take different cassettes etc) but a week or more has passed and I have received no response from them at all.

So what is the general opinion of these kits? and what sort of after sales service and help can be expected from them once they have your money...going on their responses to my e-mails to them so far, I gues it would not be that great

Any advice appreciated

Thanks

Neil

Jim has been on vacation, Alien are normally very responsive and attentive. Try and gime them a call instead.

 

[NeilP]

Ah, ok, thanks for the info. I had seen that they were good, but that was not what I had experienced...but that explains why

Cheers

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Neil,

I would recommend reading his forum before buying one goldenmotor.com - Index , I did consider buying one myself, but too many negatives put me off. My personal recommendation would be the Ezee kit, similar cost, good performance, geared rather than direct drive and proven reliability.

J hn

 

[NeilP]

Cheers I'll have a read, i pulled up the ezee kit site just now but no time to read it.

It is the road speed I am interested in, I regularly cycle the 9.1 miles to work in (best time 19 mins 56 seconds) in about 25-33 mins depending on weather..pretty flat both ways apart from one last hill at the end.

If i cant get an electric bike that will better these times then I would lose interest. The quoted speeds for the Magic pie seemed good.

Will scan the ezee kits in the next few days

cheers

 

[real_ale]

Neil,
if you can manage 9 miles in under 20 minutes it doesnt seem like you would benefit from an electric bike to me. Most of the bikes cut power off at approx 15 mph so then you would be pedalling the motor and battery etc with no assistance.

I'm new to electric bikes but where I live i would be pleased if I could drive 9 miles in the car in 20 minutes!

 

[Old Timer]

Neil,
if you can manage 9 miles in under 20 minutes it doesnt seem like you would benefit from an electric bike to me. Most of the bikes cut power off at approx 15 mph so then you would be pedalling the motor and battery etc with no assistance.

I'm new to electric bikes but where I live i would be pleased if I could drive 9 miles in the car in 20 minutes!

Say no more

 

[NeilP]

The 20 mins was the best time, on the dual carriage way, cutting in behind cars and getting the benefit of slip streaming, my usual time is 23-26 mins on the way home...best tiem to work is a fraction under 26 mins.

I have a Trek madone 4.7 which does give the best times...but no pavement hoping or dirt tracks with that.

As long as i can build a bike up that will give me a good uphill (speed 13- 15 mph +), on a hill where my best current all out minimum speed is 10 mph, I'll be happy.


I cant wash/shower at work, so I try not to go "all out" on the way in, so coming into winter, to have a bike that will get me to work against the rain/sleet/snow in a better time is what I am after.

Am I maybe expecting too much form current electric technology???

 

[NeilP]

Most of the bikes cut power off at approx 15 mph so

Yes, so that is why I am asking about the Magic Pie Kits with claims of 25 to 30 mph...that is what I am after...something quicker than my currant pedal power speed......an electric kit that only gives 15 mph is ...well words fail me here.....pointless...if all it can do is 15 mph..you may as well just pedal.

I am not a lycra clad road racer...have only just got back into cycling in the last few months...( I am 42 now) never work out , so i aint a super fit, but 15 mph...nah electric has to do better than that

 

[Cyclezee]

OK Neil,

A better option may be to not bother with a kit, sell your Trek and buy one of these 50cycles Electric Bikes UK - 2010 Kalkhoff Pro Connect S Pedelec Electric Bicycle is the Best Electric Bike Ever

J hn

 

[NeilP]

well, it looks ****, but if it has decent power, could always strip it, dump the frame and the XT bits, stick on my spare XTR stuff with my spare Trek 8500 frame and use the leccy bits from this one...hey I am quite happy with pedal power but to have the kick of decent electric power would just be great...but front suspension ....why bother with the extra weight..



or where you taking the ****???? _

 

[NeilP]

Now....these look good:


ZERO MOTORCYCLES – The Electric Motorcycle Company - Official Site


wonder if I can get the running kit from one of these

 

[rustic]

From my own experience I would have to say that I have found the Alien after sales service to be pretty spot on.

 

[jbond]

Neilp. I think you're about to enter a world of confusion. As I see it there's two approaches to this.

1) You build the best bicycle to suit you and then you try and find an e-bike kit that gives you just a little extra. It should take the sting out of the hills and let you add a few miles an hour to your pedaling. All sorts of problems here but the big one is probably weight. You'll be adding at least 5kg to the bike and probably more.

2) You build up a properly fast E-Bike. Now you're skirting the law and creating a moped. Maybe you should actually be looking at buying a moped? But now you've changed the game entirely and this is no longer about getting fit.

It's hard to find anything off the shelf that is going to solve either of these approaches. Unsurprisingly, the majority of the market is aimed at short distance, low speed, legal. If you don't fall into that, then you likely end up getting more and more into DIY and scanning the Endless-Sphere forums trying to understand what they're on about.

If you're goal is beating 19 minutes, how about a recumbent with a hidden add-on RC motor. It'll be entirely home built, but has the potential for serious speed.

 

[NeilP]

Neilp. I think you're about to enter a world of confusion.

Oh you are so right...spot on there

1) You build the best bicycle to suit you and then you try and find an e-bike kit that gives you just a little extra. It should take the sting out of the hills and let you add a few miles an hour to your pedaling. All sorts of problems here but the big one is probably weight. You'll be adding at least 5kg to the bike and probably more.

This was my plan initially...build up a bike, and add the Magic Pie kit

2) You build up a properly fast E-Bike. Now you're skirting the law and creating a moped. Maybe you should actually be looking at buying a moped? But now you've changed the game entirely and this is no longer about getting fit.

My reasoning behind all this is a bit embarrassing...I lost my licence. Over the past 8 years I have changed jobs (fit and active farmer to desk job) and put on shed loads of weight. Two months ago, I had just lost over 5 stone on the lipotrim diet (No food just 4 milkshakes a day for 3 months). I was due to start eating food the next day, and was out...was offered a drink..said no...but eventually had a glass or two of wine ( I do not normally even drink)...went home got stopped...Blow in the Bag sir....Sure no problem....But there was straight in the Red 32 mg ...just over the limit. SO no driving for the next 12 months.

Looking on the bright side..I now get plenty of exercise...20 miles or so a day. That is great when it is not raining, but crap when I have a rucksack, full panniers wearing full wet weather gear, and with winter coming on and it getting colder too......I am just knocking up a small trailer too out of the back end of two kids size Specialised MTBs for days when I have to do the shopping etc

So a decent speed 25-30 mph electric bike, for the cold wet days with the trailer is what I want.....so a moped is out.

, low speed, legal.

Trying to avoid that

scanning the Endless-Sphere forums trying to understand what they're on about.

Am going down that route but trying to avoid it....another complete new hobby/interest that I do not need...A good quick Off the shelf solution is what I am after...and it is what the magic Pie kit and Alien ocean 48 V off road kits promise

If you're goal is beating 19 minutes, how about a recumbent with a hidden add-on RC motor. It'll be entirely home built, but has the potential for serious speed.

Although that would be nice, not really a goal...Do not really fancy a recumbent...I cant see that nipping through traffic on one of those is going to be that easy.



So...there it all is.


keep the ideas coming...

Thanks all again for your comments.

Oh, PS I am not in the UK quite...Jersey..so our laws will be different....more or less restrictive I do not know...probably more...we are not even allowed motorcycle Trikes or quad bikes on the road over here...but I have seen electric bikes...but have avoided asking too many questions

Neil

 

[eddieo]

I am surprised no one has recommended a cytronex bike, legal, light and quick

Cytronex Electric Bikes - Electric Bicycles with Hidden Power Assistance

 

[Cyclezee]

Oh, PS I am not in the UK quite...Jersey..so our laws will be different....more or less restrictive I do not know...probably more...we are not even allowed motorcycle Trikes or quad bikes on the road over here...but I have seen electric bikes...but have avoided asking too many questions

Neil

Interesting Neil,

I sold my Kalkhoff Pro Connect S to a Jersey resident, you should be able to spot it having described it so eloquently "well, it looks ****, but if it has decent power, could always strip it, dump the frame" etc., etc.

J hn

 

[NeilP]

Ill keep a look out

Those cytronex converted bikes look good.. I will scan their site and see if they do a kit as well as the complete bikes

 

[eddieo]

They come up on ebay now and again. but from what you say I just think you will be very disappointed with the additional weight of an ebike...best to try or hire one first to get an idea

 

[jbond]

Why not the MagicPie from Alien? If you look at the specs it looks very attractive. Then you look at the GoldenMotor forums and the problems put you off. So:

- Alien can provide warranty. If they prove to be horribly unreliable, then it will bankrupt them. We have to hope that won't happen. And we don;t want to be the customers who find out.

- Spokes and wheel. The size of the motor and a conventional rim mean that a normal spoke pattern puts a lot of angle on the spoke nipples. Early kits seemed to come with the wrong offset so the rim wasn't centered in the axle/forks. Presumably they've fixed this now, but it's going to be a pain if spokes break all the time. There are ways of respoking to avoid this, or to use a different rim that allows some angle on the spoke nipple to rim interface. Obviously you don't want to have to re-spoke a wheel in a kit straight after you buy it.

- Early GM batteries got a bad write up on ES. They were cylindrical cells instead of prismatic. GM sell LiFePo but these appear to be LiOn. That write up was quite along time ago. Again, Alien will cover warranty and you have to hope that quality is better both for your benefit and their's.

- The rack design has the battery on the top with no-luggage support area. The other rack design would be better but the GM batteries are slightly larger so wouldn't fit.

I hope somebody takes the plunge so that the rest of us can find out if it's any good! Alien are investing in this, so you have to think they are going in with eyes wide open.