More tech advice needed on 24v sla-36v upgrade

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
532
93
55
Four Lanes,Cornwall
Well the bikes a huge improvement with just the battery change and a volt meter display. D8veh suggested the CON621 controller from greenbikekit ,to get PAS and throttle function. Ive been reluctant too so far .Its not the most powerfull ( 200w brushless rear hub ) of bikes and i felt having just MAX all the time was fine.
However i have found a shortcoming that probably wasnt apparent at the lower 24v. I think this is probably because the bike was designed, as a low powered around town bike.It has just a tiny 36t chain ring and no rear gears,just a 16t cog. When im zipping along i dont feel im contributing anything,just ghost peddling.When the motor cuts out at 15mph i cant peddle faster. I hit an incline and the bike slows.But i still cant peddle to help.On a hill finally i get some bite ,but it still seems its climbing without me achieving much.
So loads of questions.Would a larger chainring fix things ,or would it,without gears make hills a nightmare again and strain the controller? Would a throttle be able to overcme that,giving a boost whilst peddling ? I can handle steeper hills ok with it as is (tho not 24v) .But iknow the missus,who will use it couldnt.
I came across these torque simulation controllers on bms battery. S-KU65, S06S. How do these compare with the con621.They look compatible,would torque simulation be better on hills? I like the idea of the S06S having the option of a lcd display ,with voltage display function.I find the volt meter at present a godsend,compared to an innacurate led battery display. But i suppose i can always wire it in as well. Finally do these controllers have built in PAS/throttle 15 mph limiting like my present one? Ive carried out hrs of research to try answer my own questions .But can get little info.Much appreciate it if anyone can give me some clarity,cheers
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
First you have to find out if your motor is sensorless (3 wires) or sensorless (3 + 5 wires).

The S06S is a sine-wave controller with LCD. It gives 5 levels of assist and makes your motor very smooth and quiet. It doesn't give more power than a CON621, which is a square-wave 3 levels controller.

You can set the speed limit on the SO6S through settings in the LCD. The CON321 has no speed setting except that the three levels are three different speed limits.

A throttle can be used on either.

You don't need to worry about your motor not being strong enough. It can handle 1000w.
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
532
93
55
Four Lanes,Cornwall
First you have to find out if your motor is sensorless (3 wires) or sensorless (3 + 5 wires).

The S06S is a sine-wave controller with LCD. It gives 5 levels of assist and makes your motor very smooth and quiet. It doesn't give more power than a CON621, which is a square-wave 3 levels controller.

You can set the speed limit on the SO6S through settings in the LCD. The CON321 has no speed setting except that the three levels are three different speed limits.

A throttle can be used on either.

You don't need to worry about your motor not being strong enough. It can handle 1000w.
Thanks d8veh it has the 3 phase wires and another connector with 5 wires coming out of the motor . Regarding the multiple PAS and speed ajustments that would be available.Will this improve the input from peddling ,or is the small chainring going to be a problem? Unfortunately PAS sensor,chainring and crank arm are all one intergrated unit.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Regarding the multiple PAS and speed ajustments that would be available.Will this improve the input from peddling ,or is the small chainring going to be a problem? Unfortunately PAS sensor,chainring and crank arm are all one intergrated unit.
With the new controller, you can turn the power or speed down so that the bike isn't trying to go 15 mph or faster all the time.

The gearing is tricky because if you change it to be easier at high speed, it'll be harder at low speed. The only thing I'd say is that if you have no trouble on any hills at the moment, you could try a chainring with 38T or 40T, or a rear sprocket with one more tooth. A new freewheel might be the cheaper solution and probably easier to fit. You need a freewheel tool (the one below is not suitable for rear motors).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DICTA-BMX-Freewheel-16T-17T-18T-Single-Speed-1-2-x-1-8-Black-Chrome-Bronze/222499516163?hash=item33ce012f03:m:mDmDnrsaD4hHEHohW-_CFmQ

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bike-Bicycle-Cassette-Flywheel-Freewheel-Lockring-Remover-Removal-Repair-Tool/252169262217?epid=2145156749&hash=item3ab6759489:g:okMAAOSwT5tWQDw~
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
532
93
55
Four Lanes,Cornwall
First you have to find out if your motor is sensorless (3 wires) or sensorless (3 + 5 wires).

The S06S is a sine-wave controller with LCD. It gives 5 levels of assist and makes your motor very smooth and quiet. It doesn't give more power than a CON621, which is a square-wave 3 levels controller.

You can set the speed limit on the SO6S through settings in the LCD. The CON321 has no speed setting except that the three levels are three different speed limits.

A throttle can be used on either.

You don't need to worry about your motor not being strong enough. It can handle 1000w.
Much thanks d8veh. i will see how it performs before messing with the chainring. I can use the S06S but i see several lcd display models 3,5 and 6. Im a bit confused on which is more appropriate.But mostly because im reading on other threads ,of which youve been part.About these having to have many motor paramaters user set . Needing knowledge of the motors specifics,like no. of magnets and reduction ratios.which i havent got. Any chance you can clarify ,thanks
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
9 times out of 10, you just connect everything, and it works perfectly.

It makes little difference, which LCD you use, but the bigger ones (3 and 6) look nicer and have more settings to play with, which you don't normally need.
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
532
93
55
Four Lanes,Cornwall
9 times out of 10, you just connect everything, and it works perfectly.

It makes little difference, which LCD you use, but the bigger ones (3 and 6) look nicer and have more settings to play with, which you don't normally need.
Thanks d8veh. I was hoping they were plug an play.Guess the rest is for people to tweak stuff if theyre inclined. Be useful to be able to see what watts the motor is using for managing economy. As well as the battery voltage feature for better judging range.Cheers