New member advice on new ebike please

[Marlinleg]

Hello to one and all

I am looking for advice please for a 69 year old with Arthritis of the hands and feet 89k/196lbs 6 feet tall and I am reasonably fit for my age

I looking to purchase an e-bike purely for leisure. my hospital consultant said cycling would be very beneficial form of exercise. I am an EX motor cyclist of 55 years

Looking for in no particular order

1- build Quality

2-Reliability

3- I would like to have a good range of say 50/70 miles

4- fit panniers

5- have lights

6- journey will be mid week with little traffic

I am looking to go cycling each week just for the joy of getting out and about

I am not really mechanical minded, I can fix a puncture

I live 5 miles from Newcastle upon Tyne . Telling you this as I would need to get my ebike serviced and fellow forum members may be able to recommend servicing locations I am about 5 miles from Edinburgh Cycles who were showing me

KALKHOFF AGATTU I7 2017 STEP-THROUGH £1,549.00

Brakes Shimano Alivio V-brakes

power impulse 2.0 36 V / 250 W, with Shift-Sensor technology

Battery Impulse Li-Ion 36 V / 11 Ah

My budget is 2K or there about

Thank you for all your help

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Personally, I wouldn't get a Kalkhoff with the Impulse motor until we have absolute confirmation that the reliability issues are fixed.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/ongoing-reliability-of-kalkhoff-focus-impulse-2-motors.24290/

There's loads of other bikes to choose from, but you need a local dealer to sort out any warranty/servicing issues, so it's just a question of what your local dealers have.

 

[Trevormonty]

Kalkhoff make excellents bikes, the ones with Bosch motor should be fine. It is impulse motor you want to avoid.

If you have had test ride and like impulse drive system then the other drive systems to consider are Bosch, Shimano Steps, Brose and Yamaha. Bosch and Shimano dominate city ebike class.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Marlinleg....we have some special deals on the KTM bike range....please look on kudoscycles.com.
The 50/70 mile range would need a heavy 20Ah battery....take ranges quoted by manufacturers with care....a good rule of thumb is 3 miles per Ah....most of the popular 10Ah batteries are good for 25-35 miles.
KudosDave

 

[Nealh]

Depending on your budget the Rolls Royce of bikes are the Reise & Muller range but they are certainly not cheap the Delite model is ideal for touring /days out and they have the option of dual battery set up.
Kalhoff another very good top range bike but only get the Impulse drive version at your peril, there are systematic issues with drive.

 

[topographer]

You might want to think about having a spare battery on a rack or in a pannier...and that would add hundreds of pounds to your outlay.

 

[RobF]

You will struggle to get 50+ miles from a single battery, unless you can manage on the lowest setting or do some miles unassisted.

I would be inclined to buy a Bosch crank drive bike with the thought in the back of my mind of a second battery later.

This shop in Durham City has improved its range a lot recently, and they have several Kalkhoff/Bosch bikes in stock, as well as KTM, and one or two others.

https://www.the-ebikestore.co.uk/

An alternative would be the Infinity/Cube store just outside Durham City.

They have a good stock of Cube ebkes which have the Bosch drive.

http://www.durham.cubebikestore.eu/

 

[John_S]

I'd say it is worth considering a Kudos bike as they are a very well established company with high-quality bikes. They have several bikes that are very strong hill climbers including the BPM-powered Arriba and Typhoon.

In my opinion, it is only worth getting a crank drive bike such as the Kalkhoff if you live in a very hilly area. From personal experience, I find crank drives less fun to ride than hub drives because you have to keep on changing gear all the time and making sure you are always in the correct gear at any one moment in time to avoid putting strain on the motor and causing the motor to overheat. On a hub drive, the gears operate independently from the motor and you don't need to worry about what gear you are in.

Just something to consider.

 

[Danidl]

I'd say it is worth considering a Kudos bike as they are a very well established company with high-quality bikes. They have several bikes that are very strong hill climbers including the BPM-powered Arriba and Typhoon.

In my opinion, it is only worth getting a crank drive bike such as the Kalkhoff if you live in a very hilly area. From personal experience, I find crank drives less fun to ride than hub drives because you have to keep on changing gear all the time and making sure you are always in the correct gear at any one moment in time to avoid putting strain on the motor and causing the motor to overheat. On a hub drive, the gears operate independently from the motor and you don't need to worry about what gear you are in.

Just something to consider.

... Do you have any experience of central drive motor overheating while in a wrong gear??. Otherwise seems fanciful to me.
My Bosch powered central drive has a 9 speed gears, but most of the time I sit around 5 and only move away from this when I would have to change cadence a lot. . I suspect that a 3to 5 speed bike with central drive would be adaquate, and the nine is overkill.
I like the more realistic cycling experience from the crank motor, it's like having bionic legs , but that is a personal preference.

My experience might be more like the posters. Retired, cycling for pleasure, ambling and wanting comfort.
My suggestion is to put one of the Dutch style bikes on your list, preferably with a step through frame. There are plenty but I am suggesting that the Raleigh Captus or Motus would fit the bill. .. I am satisfied with mine

 

[Woosh]

3- I would like to have a good range of say 50/70 miles

at your weight, any good bike with 17AH battery will give you the desired range without anxiety.
From my bikes, I would suggest the Krieger 2017 with 17AH battery @ £1,129.

It's a crank driven bike, already fitted with full sized chainguard, mudguards, lights bell and rack. The tyres are kevlar, with addition of slime, should be puncture proof, the brakes are Avid disc, 180mm front, 160mm rear, adjustable stem without tool.
The main difference between a German crank drive and a Chinese crank drive is the control system. German crank drives use a torque sensor, the bike is powered up as soon as you push on the pedal. Chinese crank drives have usually crank rotational control, the bike is powered after the crank rotates 60 degrees, typically one second from pushing off.
You can cancel the 1 second delay using the Krieger's thumb throttle to push off.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?krieger

The thumb throttle is on the right:

 

[John_S]

... Do you have any experience of central drive motor overheating while in a wrong gear??. Otherwise seems fanciful to me.
My Bosch powered central drive has a 9 speed gears, but most of the time I sit around 5 and only move away from this when I would have to change cadence a lot. . I suspect that a 3to 5 speed bike with central drive would be adaquate, and the nine is overkill.
I like the more realistic cycling experience from the crank motor, it's like having bionic legs , but that is a personal preference.

My experience might be more like the posters. Retired, cycling for pleasure, ambling and wanting comfort.
My suggestion is to put one of the Dutch style bikes on your list, preferably with a step through frame. There are plenty but I am suggesting that the Raleigh Captus or Motus would fit the bill. .. I am satisfied with mine

I owned a crank drive bike before (a Woosh Krieger) and it went through three motors, all of which ended up becoming broken. Each one stopped working after two or three months of having been used. I suspect that each time it may have been to do with the motor overheating. Or perhaps it was a build up of cumulative damage that eventually caused the motor to give way. I finally gave up on the bike and ordered a Woosh Big Bear with which I have never had any problems with the motor. It seemed to me that I was using the gears correctly on the crank drive. At least I was trying my best to do so correctly, but apparently not correctly enough. I was riding with a heavy 18 stone of weight on board (myself plus a child) which may have contributed to the problem.

I don't think I'll buy another crank drive again, although I'm pleased that many other forum members on here do seem to be having success with owning one.

 

[Danidl]

I owned a crank drive bike before (a Woosh Krieger) and it went through three motors, all of which ended up becoming broken. Each one stopped working after two or three months of having been used. I suspect that each time it may have been to do with the motor overheating. Or perhaps it was a build up of cumulative damage that eventually caused the motor to give way. I finally gave up on the bike and ordered a Woosh Big Bear with which I have never had any problems with the motor. It seemed to me that I was using the gears correctly on the crank drive. At least I was trying my best to do so correctly, but apparently not correctly enough. I was riding with a heavy 18 stone of weight on board (myself plus a child) which may have contributed to the problem.

I don't think I'll buy another crank drive again, although I'm pleased that many other forum members on here do seem to be having success with owning one.

Woosh would be better placed to respond to this The only observation I could make is that the models of crank drive bike being suggested are at twice the price point and hub motors are a less expensive technology

 

[RobF]

I owned a crank drive bike before (a Woosh Krieger) and it went through three motors, all of which ended up becoming broken. Each one stopped working after two or three months of having been used. I suspect that each time it may have been to do with the motor overheating. Or perhaps it was a build up of cumulative damage that eventually caused the motor to give way. I finally gave up on the bike and ordered a Woosh Big Bear with which I have never had any problems with the motor. It seemed to me that I was using the gears correctly on the crank drive. At least I was trying my best to do so correctly, but apparently not correctly enough. I was riding with a heavy 18 stone of weight on board (myself plus a child) which may have contributed to the problem.

I don't think I'll buy another crank drive again, although I'm pleased that many other forum members on here do seem to be having success with owning one.

The moral of your story is not all crank drives are created equal.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Any crank-drive bike will overheat if you drive it hard enough or pedal slow enough, especially if you don't have suitable gearing for the steepness of your ride. Some of the more expensive ones have a temperature sensor in them, so they cut the motor before any damage is done. In some of the magazine tests, where they do extreme climbs, they mention such cut-outs.

 

[Woosh]

Woosh would be better placed to respond to this The only observation I could make is that the models of crank drive bike being suggested are at twice the price point and hub motors are a less expensive technology

Unlike German crank drives, Chinese crank drives can overheat because there is no intelligent software to workout how the motor is being used.
If you are interested, this thread gives an insight to the capabilities (and also weaknesses) of the Bafang BBS01 from which the vast majority of Chinese crank drives are modeled from.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/250w-bbs01-drehmoment-wirkungsgrad-leistungsdaten-von-bafang.38435/&edit-text=&act=url

On the new Krieger, I have mitigated the risk by reworking several risk factors:
1. Reduce the highest front to back gear ratio. The smallest cog on the rear is 14T
2. Reduce the power ramp on the throttle.
3. Fit a gear sensor to encourage shifting to more appropriate gear.
4. Reduce the maximum current to 17A.

If I were to single out a determining factor in selecting which motor would suit you best, you should check your favourite cadence, under 60RPM, you are better off with a geared hub bike, over 70RPM, you'd love a crank drive.

The Krieger remains, still, in my view, an exciting bike.

 

[Danidl]

Any crank-drive bike will overheat if you drive it hard enough or pedal slow enough, especially if you don't have suitable gearing for the steepness of your ride. Some of the more expensive ones have a temperature sensor in them, so they cut the motor before any damage is done. In some of the magazine tests, where they do extreme climbs, they mention such cut-outs.

I suppose that in a crank drive, the control electronics is physically very close to the motor so putting additional sensors is easy to accomplish. Do the hub motors then not use such protection, or are they assuming the extra mass of the hub will conduct away the heat?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Some hub-motors have heat sensors in; however, like the crank-drives, it's a pain when they kick in because they knock your power right down when you most need it, but at least they stop your motor from burning. Some of us have mechanical sympathy, so we know when we're over-loading our motors, and we have a good idea of how much they can take. These automatic control systems always seem to have too much safety margin.

 

[John_S]

If my crank driven bike had been one that had an inbuilt temperature sensor, can it be assumed that the problems that I experienced with the motor would probably have never happened?

 

[Woosh]

If my crank driven bike had been one that had an inbuilt temperature sensor, can it be assumed that the problems that I experienced with the motor would probably have never happened?

I think quite possibly. The gearbox in the BPM has both nylon cogs and steel cogs, when the motor labours, you can hear the change of pitch. The gearbox in the Krieger's motor is all steel, helical mesh, they don't change their pitch when they get hot. The danger zone for crank drives is under 30 RPM where the yield is low and the torque is high.

 

[topographer]

That graph reminds me how complicated motors are. It's a pity they can't operate with max power, torque and efficiency at all speeds. I know 2wd exists but has anyone ever paired two very different motors in a bike, one good at low speed and one good at high speed?