New Super Light Tongxin Motor Design/Kit

[fa001313]

Yes, thats right.

Only 2 cables coming out of the motor (actually only one which splits in two). One cable to connect the battery and one cable to connect the led display. A cable coming out from the led display then connects to the speedometer.

My build is up and running. It's a 235 rpm motor in a 700c wheel (my bike is a Charge Filter Apex).

I'm very happy with how it's running. The only thing is still must do is add an on/off switch.
I would like to do this by adding a switch before the led display. In contrary to what i said before: when i disconnect the led the motor shuts off, when i reconnect motor starts up and the assistance always jumps back to 3 (so unfortunately it doesn't remember it's previous state). Let you know how this works out.

Tom

 

[piotrmacheta]

That sounds great. Did you say that you use a normal cassette? That's a real plus point for me. I have a front hub with built in controller (on my race bike) and I do find that it runs on after you stop pedalling which can be very disconcerting - luckily I have good brakes. I haven't got round to playing with a cut off switch which it really needs.

 

[fa001313]

Yes, installed it with my 10-speed Sram cassette. It was a close fit but it works.

The 'running motor after you stop pedalling' problem is still there, unfortunately.
I have disc brakes luckily so these are more powerful than the keyde motor.

 

[piotrmacheta]

Just out of interest what speed do you manage on a flat with minimal pedalling? I get to about 22 or 23mph with the 260rpm motor. I did wonder whether I should have gone for a lower rpm one as this is more likely to reach it's full speed and be more efficient and also I wonder how much strain I'm putting on mine on the steep hills (make me pedal more though). Also did I read that it is a direct drive motor? When I bought mine I'm sure it said it was geared - it does make a slight whine so mine must be geared.

 

[fa001313]

I do about 35-40 km/h with pedaling. Didn't try it with minimal effort yet (my goal is still to 'work' on the bike, but go faster then before).

I doubt it's a direct drive motor. It's just way to small for that. But maybe someone with more tech knowledge can elaborate on that.

 

[dingrpdl]

Yes, installed it with my 10-speed Sram cassette. It was a close fit but it works.

The 'running motor after you stop pedalling' problem is still there, unfortunately.
I have disc brakes luckily so these are more powerful than the keyde motor.

I hope you don't mind my asking more questions. I have mine on order now. Awaiting a reply from Sky at Keyde as to the time frame and shipping cost.

How long does it take before the motor cuts out after you stop pedalling?

Also, when you change the assist level on the control, do you feel the change in assist pretty much immediately?

When set at the highest assist level, when you start off, do you get a sudden power-on or is it pretty smooth?

Is there a zero-assist setting on the control?

Do you find yourself setting a particular assist level and leaving it there for the entire ride?

Richard

 

[fa001313]

Well, the time the motor takes to shut off is probably only about a second. But it's not something you won't notice (but you might get used to it).
The level of assist changes immediately and take of goes definitely with a light shock (but i avoid starting with the motor on).

There is indeed a zero-assist setting (it goes from 0 to 5, so 6 steps but 1 immediately gives a lot of assistance). This is also what i like to emulate with my on/off switch (and later maybe a cut-out brake).
Sky told me that there working on adding a cut-out brake connection. So maybe they have it implemented when you receive yours.

I regularly change the assistant setting when i'm on mixed ground (not all the roads here in Belgium are equally ok). And 30kph is to fast for me when not on tarmac.

 

[jerrysimon]

I am using the motor without the controller built in. This way I have a choice of using their external controller (pedelec only) or a programmable controller for throttle.

The stock controller manages the motor much better but is pedelec only. I still prefer throttle but then you have to run a third party programmable controller at quite a low current setting to prevent the clutch slipping. Of course with the built in controller you have no choice but to use pedelec only.

The overrun using pedelec is off putting and I prefer a cutout brake/switch when using their controller.

Regards

Jerry

 

[dingrpdl]

The overrun using pedelec is off putting and I prefer a cutout brake/switch when using their controller.

I ordered a rear hub motor with a built-in controller. Sky Zhang at Keyde says it will be about a month before they can ship it. This motor will go into a new folder I will buy (possibly a Tern or Dahon). I plan to mod the connection with the assist selector unit to implement a brake cutout if it is not included in the current circuitry.

I have not abandoned my Brompton (with the original Tongxin motor) yet. But I can't ride it right now because they are cracking down on electric bikes here in Hong Kong. Hong Kong's law does not have a provision that allows electric assist bicycles and takes the backward view that they are dangerous, unlicensed motor vehicles.

The Keyde rear wheel motor is only 100mm in diameter and that is smaller than the diameter of the 32t sprocket in a 8/9 speed cassette. So it will be a stealthy setup compared to the exposed front wheel hub on my Brompton. Even more so if the rear hub has a brake disc on the left side.

Richard

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You need one of these. Nobody will know it's electric. The prices are between $1000 and $2000. The specification of the bikes (forks, gears, etc) is very high.
ANNAD--Hangzhou ANNAD Electric Bike Co., Ltd.

 

[dingrpdl]

You need one of these. Nobody will know it's electric. The prices are between $1000 and $2000. The specification of the bikes (forks, gears, etc) is very high.
ANNAD--Hangzhou ANNAD Electric Bike Co., Ltd.

These bikes also use the Keyde 100mm diameter rear hub motors with the integrated controllers like the one I ordered. They would be fine for me if I were not looking for a folding bike.

Richard

 

[mr_chompers]

You need one of these. Nobody will know it's electric. The prices are between $1000 and $2000. The specification of the bikes (forks, gears, etc) is very high.
ANNAD--Hangzhou ANNAD Electric Bike Co., Ltd.

Where would one buy these? they look great! love the 15kg weight.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You can buy one direct from Annad I should think, but by the time you've added shipping, duty and clearance, the price will increase substantially - probably about 50%, so about £1800 for the cheaper M1 with 26" wheel. If it all works, it's a very nice bike for the money; however, a guy on ES got the Keyde kit, and on his first outing (IIRC), he went up a steep hill, which caused the rollers in the motor to slip due to torque and something broke. He now wants a new high-torque motor. I think you have to be careful how you use these motors.

 

[Ken Taylor]

Predicting Assisted Performance

Yes, thats right.

My build is up and running. It's a 235 rpm motor in a 700c wheel (my bike is a Charge Filter Apex).

I'm very happy with how it's running.

I read in another post every motor comes with a performance curve graph. Would you publish the curve for your motor? I am interested in using it with load curves (see UrRemote Research: What Would It Take To Cycle Fast When You Can't?) and human performance data to predict combined performance.

 

[dingrpdl]

Keyde motors arrive!

The two motors I ordered from Keyde arrived yesterday. It took about three weeks from order to shipping. Sky Zhang was the rep that I dealt with.



The first one is a 100mm diameter, ~80mm width front hub motor similar to Jerry's Goldant motor. It even has the same part number as Jerry's -- 98SWXR36. But the casing is clearly different. And the wire exits the right side of the motor right at the base of the spindle rather than at the end of the spindle. This motor will replace the older Tongxin 'Nano' (120mm diameter) on one of my Bromptons for a slightly more stealthy look. Also, the right-side wire exit will mean that it no longer gets in the way of the chain stay hook on the Brommie's front fork. The motor weighs 1.46Kg according to my kitchen scale.



The second motor is a 100mm diameter, 135mm width rear hub motor with an integrated controller -- the same motor that Tom got about two months ago. This motor will go on my new ORi M9 bike (a descendant of the Mezzo bike design). As Tom, pointed out, there is a wiring harness that connects to the motor and spilts into two. One branch goes to the battery and the other to the handlebar-mounted assist-level selector unit which is in turn connected to a bike computer. The speed sensor is built into the motor and so a separate pedelec disc is not necessary. This way, the controller senses the wheel speed rather than the crank cadence on the traditional bottom-bracket mounted sensor. As far as I can see, the provided bike computer is really a regular bike computer unit except that it gets the wheel speed pulses direct from the motor instead of the usual spoke/fork magnetic pickup setup. This motor weighs 1.84Kg.



The bad news is that although I asked Sky to ship me a 28-hole rear hub motor, even emphasizing that many times during the order process, I got a 32-hole motor. I have asked Sky how long it would take to have the correct one sent but have not gotten a reply. I suspect it is going to be a long-winded process of sending back the motor and waiting many, many weeks for the correct one with the risk that the second motor may still not be correct. Such are the perils when ordering directly from Chinese suppliers. The simpler alternative is to just get a 32-hole rim.

Another point is that the front hub motor comes with a three-pin motor connector which is different from the 9-pin one that shipped with my original Tongxin 'Nano' motor so I won't be able to just unnlug the old motor and plug in the new one. I will have to modify the connector on my Brompton harness. Does anyone have a source for the female three-pin connector? I have asked Sky if they can sell me such a cable but have heard nothing.




Richard

 

[jerrysimon]

Should be able to get a 32 hole rim ok. Just thought you want a smaller rim don't you which may be harder to source

The font motor only has three pins as it is sensorless. Those connectors are common now so you should be able to get one easily. Someone on the forum will probably have one.

I like the way they have changed the wire exit. You don't seem to have got the stock controller with that front hub one ? The stock one has pedelec only.

I have one of these spare (it has the correct connector on it) if you want it incl a pedelec disk. I am happy to sell it to you for what it cost me. The pedelec ring is a little fiddly to fit to the Brompton and you will need to fit the cutout brake for the over run. All the details are on my Goldant post. These work best with the motor but as I said have no throttle option.

If you check my Goldant post you will see that the old Tongxin controller will not work with it. If you want throttle you will need to get a lyen or ecrazyman's controller which you will then have to re programmed for about 7amps max plus change one or two other settings to stop the clutch slipping.

Regards

Jerry

 

[dingrpdl]

Should be able to get a 32 hole rim ok. Just thought you want a smaller rim don't you which may be harder to source

The ORi M9 uses the 349-sized rim like the Brompton. I managed to find a supplier for a 32-hole Aeroheat rim in the 349 size.

If you check my Goldant post you will see that the old Tongxin controller will not work with it.

Thanks Jerry. But I am going to first try to get it to work with my KU63 controller and see how that works out.


Richard

 

[shemozzle999]

I have a 3 pin cable available dingrpdl, check out the the link to see if it is what you require:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/classifieds/10407-replacement-motor-cables.html#post124530

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks Jerry. But I am going to first try to get it to work with my KU63 controller and see how that works out.

You will probably find it pushes out too much current if it is set for the original Nano. I found I had to reduce the current right down and set the delay on current startup a lot to prevent the clutch slipping. I guess it will be ok providing you can re programme the KU63 ?

Jerry

 

[dingrpdl]

You will probably find it pushes out too much current if it is set for the original Nano. I found I had to reduce the current right down and set the delay on current startup a lot to prevent the clutch slipping. I guess it will be ok providing you can re programme the KU63 ?

Jerry

Thanks for the notes on your experience with the Goldant motor, Jerry.

The KU63 is not programmable. However, it does have a current shunt. I actually had the shunt on one of my KU63 units shaved down limiting the output to about 8 Amps. I was aiming for 10 Amps but shaved it too much. I was going to add solder to the shunt to bring the limit up to 10 Amps. But in the end, an 8 Amp limit was fine. So I will use this controller with the new motor and see if it works OK. I will limit it more if necessary.

Richard