Not sure if I should Convert or Buy off the shelf

[Deleted member 4366]

Thanks Dave,

Where would be the best place to get a full kit? Dillenger offer a complete kit including battery but it does seem to be on the expensive side.

Also from your experience should I go for Rear hub or mid drive?

I don't think I would want anything more than 500 Watt Motor although a 250 will probably be more than adequate for my purpose.

For commuting, I would always go with a hub-motor. It's just so much easier, especially if you have a lot of stops and starts. Crank motors are great for "active" cycling.

If you run any 250W motor at 48v, it should give you enough power. the trick is to use a motor that will run at about 250 rpm at 48v, so you get good efficiency round about 15 mph. Basically, that gives you 33% more torque throughout the range compared with a 250 rpm 36v motor. The big problem is to get meaningful info about the motor speed from the supplier.

When I started commuting 30 miles a day, I had a normal 230 rpm 36v motor and a crappy 8.8 AH battery. I could just make it on the one battery. After a few weeks my legs got stronger and after a few months I could do the mainly downhill journey to work on 1 Ah and the return with 3 Ah. Average speed was about 14 mph. After that, I started experimenting with higher power and higher speed, so I was using about 13 Ah from a 20Ah battery, and cruising with an average speed of about 18 mph.

The Woosh kits are probably about the best for what you want because they run slightly higher current than the other 250W kits. Depending on how fast you want, I would say to go for the biggest battery they do - hopefully around 17 Ah. There kits do have an adjustable speed limit.

I still buy all my stuff from China to get exactly the mix and match stuff that I want, depending on what I want the conversion to do. It used to be cheaper, but not anymore, though at least you can get a motor that runs at the right speed. I can't over-emphasise enough how important it is to get a hub-motor with a speed that matches your requirements. It makes a big difference to power and efficiency.

 

[Trevormonty]

Test ride a few bikes with different drive systems. If you find drive system you like then do a half day hire just to be sure it is right for you.

 

[Darranna]

For commuting, I would always go with a hub-motor. It's just so much easier, especially if you have a lot of stops and starts. Crank motors are great for "active" cycling.

If you run any 250W motor at 48v, it should give you enough power. the trick is to use a motor that will run at about 250 rpm at 48v, so you get good efficiency round about 15 mph. Basically, that gives you 33% more torque throughout the range compared with a 250 rpm 36v motor. The big problem is to get meaningful info about the motor speed from the supplier.

When I started commuting 30 miles a day, I had a normal 230 rpm 36v motor and a crappy 8.8 AH battery. I could just make it on the one battery. After a few weeks my legs got stronger and after a few months I could do the mainly downhill journey to work on 1 Ah and the return with 3 Ah. Average speed was about 14 mph. After that, I started experimenting with higher power and higher speed, so I was using about 13 Ah from a 20Ah battery, and cruising with an average speed of about 18 mph.

The Woosh kits are probably about the best for what you want because they run slightly higher current than the other 250W kits. Depending on how fast you want, I would say to go for the biggest battery they do - hopefully around 17 Ah. There kits do have an adjustable speed limit.

I still buy all my stuff from China to get exactly the mix and match stuff that I want, depending on what I want the conversion to do. It used to be cheaper, but not anymore, though at least you can get a motor that runs at the right speed. I can't over-emphasise enough how important it is to get a hub-motor with a speed that matches your requirements. It makes a big difference to power and efficiency.

Hi Dave, thanks for taking the time to give a comprehensive reply.
I'm probably just going to buy an off the shelf bike, because if I convert my Crossfire I'm going to have to buy another bike for when the wife and I are away.

Would the same be true for the motors used in the bikes that Whoosh sells as it is for their kit motors?

 

[Recy]

The Greenway bike does look quite interesting for the price, does anyone here have experience of the Bewo crank drive installed and can it be tweaked or derestricted?

 

[Woosh]

I use the Bewo motor in the Woosh Krieger and the Bali.
Its gearbox is all steel, no plastic cogs, it runs much quieter than the bafang BBS. The derestriction is in the LCD. If the manufacturers want to lock it, they only have to set up speed sensor abnormality function (error 21) and a password to the max speed register.

 

[Recy]

Quieter - nice. How would you otherwise rate it against a BBS01?
My guess is that the battery on the Greenway will not get the
best out of it

 

[Woosh]

Quieter - nice. How would you otherwise rate it against a BBS01?
My guess is that the battery on the Greenway will not get the
best out of it

I am not the best qualified person for impartial advice on this.
I am partial to Bewo because I use their motors and I like the people who work there. They also make their own gear sensors.
If anyone needs repair for their bewo motor, we can fix any problem.

 

[Recy]

Good to know.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Would the same be true for the motors used in the bikes that Whoosh sells as it is for their kit motors?

Yes. I would ask them if they can do a battery upgrade to something like 17Ah.

 

[Recy]

I'm trying to find the current rating of the controller, when I do I'll pass on a few details.

 

[Recy]

Consensus seems to be approx 60nm at the back wheel with the type of battery supplied. Acceptable if accurate.

 

[Darranna]

Quieter - nice. How would you otherwise rate it against a BBS01?
My guess is that the battery on the Greenway will not get the
best out of it

Just be mindful that if you go for a Greenway bike you're likely to be on your own if you need assistance or support. I've emailed them twice to see if they're reintroducing the Mid drive hybrid a few members on here snatched up last year and all I get is two word responses like "no sorry". There not even trying to promote their other bikes. Seems very poor to me.

 

[Recy]

Actually forum members have had good back up support from them - see the threads for the bike you speak of. Fixed issues very well esp considering the type of 'stack 'em high' approach - sent parts quickly with no fuss. I know someone who would buy from them again.
The Bewo is a sound mid drive motor by all accounts.

 

[Darranna]

I have a little free time today so might had a drive to East London and have a look.

 

[Darranna]

I have a little free time today so might had a drive to East London and have a look.

Had a run over to Becton, East London this morning to visit Greenway Bikes. They clearly weren't used to people just turning up unannounced and so it took a few minutes for them to find me someone to talk to. He took me up to the top floor of the building, that is half office half warehouse. Laid out were all the bikes they currently offer, most were standard pedal cycles but they had a 6 or so Electric bikes to have a look at. Basically, the ones on their website. I did ask if there were any plans to bring back the hybrid with the mid drive Bafang Motor, they confirmed they will not. So I have a look at a couple of there MTB based bikes.

They all seemed well finished comparable to anything found in Halfords. The frames seemed a little small to me, but bare in mind this is the first e-Bike I looked at.

They had a couple of bikes for me to try (albeit around their yard) the first was the fat wheel MTB and the other was the Black with Blue and Yellow stickers Rear Hub mounted bike and again it seemed to do what it should and for the price they are very difficult to fault.

One observation I did note is when riding the second bike it had a 24 gears but even on the first power level my feet were over powering the cranks meaning my feet were flailing around like no tomorrow.

Is this a normal trait for eBikes? I was hoping that it would alloy me to power it on the flat well about the 15.5MPH.

PS They restrict their bikes when they arrive at their warehouse.

 

[Darranna]

I forgot to add they didn't have a Bewo powered bike available for me to ride.

 

[Woosh]

I forgot to add they didn't have a Bewo powered bike available for me to ride.

you can try the Bewo motor at my shop.

Basically, the ones on their website. I did ask if there were any plans to bring back the hybrid with the mid drive Bafang Motor, they confirmed they will not.

If they bring them back, I doubt they could sell them at £1000 a pop.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

One observation I did note is when riding the second bike it had a 24 gears but even on the first power level my feet were over powering the cranks meaning my feet were flailing around like no tomorrow.

Is this a normal trait for eBikes? I was hoping that it would alloy me to power it on the flat well about the 15.5MPH.

The problem is the motor is the free-wheel gears version. Most free-wheel gears have a 14 tooth top gears, which is too many. It's easily fixed by changing the gear-set to a DNP one that has 11T on the top gear. Cost about £20.

 

[Woosh]

The problem is the motor is the free-wheel gears version. Most free-wheel gears have a 14 tooth top gears, which is too many. It's easily fixed by changing the gear-set to a DNP one that has 11T on the top gear. Cost about £20.

both the Rio MTB and the FB have 11T-32T DNP 8-speed freewheel.

 

[Darranna]

The problem is the motor is the free-wheel gears version. Most free-wheel gears have a 14 tooth top gears, which is too many. It's easily fixed by changing the gear-set to a DNP one that has 11T on the top gear. Cost about £20.

Thanks Dave, that's good to know.