Rebuilding a Wisper 905

Chris Maluszynski

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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So the battery on my old Wisper 905 died some time ago and it's sitting and collecting dust.

I'm pondering rebuilding the battery to 48v (how would I do that?) and switching out components (I suppose I need a new controller, but what else?) to get more power out of the bike - I'm primarily interested in more torque.

I have also played with the thought of adding another motor in the front. But that would need a separate controller and battery from what I gather?

Has anyone done antyhing that resembles any of the above?

Any other suggestions on what to do with the wisper frame and BFUN motor that's on this old bike to give it new life?
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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Many 36v controllers won't go all the way to 48v, so best to get a new one. There are much nicer ones these days, which give much better control of the power. This one is pretty good. You need the LCD and the speed sensor. Your throttle and PAS will work with it, but you'll have to change connectors/wiring, or just get new ones and replace everything. Before ordering, check whether your motor has hall sensors. If not, you need a different controller.

Send your battery to Jimmy (Insat/BGA Reworking) and he'll change the contents to 48v.

Your motor will give about 60% more torque with that setup. It'll be much quieter and about 30% faster. You can set the speed limit in the controller, and each level gives a different power, so you have a choice of 5 power levels.
 

Chris Maluszynski

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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Hey Thanks d8veh!

The battery fix would be great if it werent' for the fact that the battery is in Norway - and doesn't travel well these days I understand (restrictions on planes etc). Is this battery conversion complicated to do oneself if I ordered cells etc from China?

Also I don't see the link to the controller you speak of - did you forget to include in the post?

Not sure about the hall sensors (how would I check?) I'm not where the bike is right now, but could maybe ask someone to take a look if I told them what to look for.

Cheers

Chris
 
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Deleted member 4366

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Controller:

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2016-3F-39N8.50CQE

Building a battery from 18650s isn't a walk in the park. You need a spotwelder first. By the time you've bought the cells, the BMS, the nickel strips and the welder, it'll work out a lot more expensive than buying a battery.

You can fit any battery you want.If you have the seatpost battery, you can chuck it and the base fitting, then get any rack battery and run the wires through to the controller, or mount the controller in the space left by the battery, or gut the battery case and use it as storage. There might even be space in the triangle to fit a downtube battery with or without included controller.
 

Chris Maluszynski

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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Ok. I see. So would the place to get a new battery be the same website as the controller?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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Ok. I see. So would the place to get a new battery be the same website as the controller?
Could be. Alternatively, BMSBattery have downtube batteries that include a nice 20 amp controller and the rest of the kit, though you have to change a wire to fit the wheel-speed sensor, which you must order separately. They also have rack batteries with 18 amp controllers.
 

Chris Maluszynski

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
196
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When choosing batteries I suppose it's wise to stick to the Panasonic/Sanyo versions, correct?

And if someone here has their wisper 905 nearby, maybe you could help with the measurements of the battery compartment and to identify if the motor has hall sensors?

Thanks!

Chris
 

Phil the drill

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 14, 2008
395
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TR9
When choosing batteries I suppose it's wise to stick to the Panasonic/Sanyo versions, correct?

And if someone here has their wisper 905 nearby, maybe you could help with the measurements of the battery compartment and to identify if the motor has hall sensors?

Thanks!

Chris
Hi, just found this post, so sorry for delayed reply. I too have an original Wisper 905 se, which has become something of a 'Trigger's broom'. The original battery long since lost it's mojo and new 'official' batteries are so expensive they are hard to justify, especially for an older bike.
My Wisper has the followimg mods (not all done at once - an evolution of several years):-
Shimano dynamo in front hub with B&M front led lights front and rear.
BPM 350w rear motor and 350w controller box squeezed into existing housing.
Avid BB7 disc brake on front and new Avid V-brake on rear with Jag wire no stretch cables (big difference in braking).
Chain ring reduced to 48t, chainguard fitted, PAS sensor moved to the left, proper (cassette) BB fitted and a free wheel rear 34-11 cassette fitted (can't get hold of these any more).
Down tube 36v battery fitted in triangle behind seat, with a 36v 17.4Ah (20A BMS) battery withPanasonic cells, sold by BMS battery. This is a tight squeeze, but does just fit with minimal jiggery-pokery. Overall effect is marvellous, if possibly a tad illegal on the road... Using the hand throttle on max and Pedalling with a little gusto, it will fly up a 1:6 hill in top gear... :).
Will post pictures of battery arrangement if you would like to see it.
Regards, Phil
 

Chris Maluszynski

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
196
1
49
Phil, thanks and YES please!! I would love to do exactly all of those things. But I think I will start with battery, controller and front disc brake. Please send links to battery and controller on BMS if you can. And any other stuff I may need? New connectors? Hall sensor for motor? Or did you change the motor as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Phil the drill

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 14, 2008
395
6
TR9
Phil, thanks and YES please!! I would love to do exactly all of those things. But I think I will start with battery, controller and front disc brake. Please send links to battery and controller on BMS if you can. And any other stuff I may need? New connectors? Hall sensor for motor? Or did you change the motor as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hi.
The motor was changed to a bafang BPM motor and controller also - I'll have to look up the controller I used, as it was a while ago and I can't remember off the top of my head which one it was. I'll post some pics too, but will be a little later on, as I have go out right now (pester power over the shoulder...).
Cheers,
Phil
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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Hi, just found this post, so sorry for delayed reply. I too have an original Wisper 905 se, which has become something of a 'Trigger's broom'. The original battery long since lost it's mojo and new 'official' batteries are so expensive they are hard to justify, especially for an older bike.
My Wisper has the followimg mods (not all done at once - an evolution of several years):-
Shimano dynamo in front hub with B&M front led lights front and rear.
BPM 350w rear motor and 350w controller box squeezed into existing housing.
Avid BB7 disc brake on front and new Avid V-brake on rear with Jag wire no stretch cables (big difference in braking).
Chain ring reduced to 48t, chainguard fitted, PAS sensor moved to the left, proper (cassette) BB fitted and a free wheel rear 34-11 cassette fitted (can't get hold of these any more).
Down tube 36v battery fitted in triangle behind seat, with a 36v 17.4Ah (20A BMS) battery withPanasonic cells, sold by BMS battery. This is a tight squeeze, but does just fit with minimal jiggery-pokery. Overall effect is marvellous, if possibly a tad illegal on the road... Using the hand throttle on max and Pedalling with a little gusto, it will fly up a 1:6 hill in top gear... :).
Will post pictures of battery arrangement if you would like to see it.
Regards, Phil
That's a lot of nice changes, Phil. I bet it goes really well, but there's just one thing I'm not sure about. For the price of a BB7 and Jag Wire, you can get a hydraulic brake, which would be quicker to fit, perform significantly better and be maintenance free. To me, it's no contest, so I can't see the point of upgrading to BB7s.
 

Phil the drill

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 14, 2008
395
6
TR9
That's a lot of nice changes, Phil. I bet it goes really well, but there's just one thing I'm not sure about. For the price of a BB7 and Jag Wire, you can get a hydraulic brake, which would be quicker to fit, perform significantly better and be maintenance free. To me, it's no contest, so I can't see the point of upgrading to BB7s.
I take the point, but at the time (did this about 2010), I could not find an easy way to incorporate brake lever cut outs into a hydraulic brake set up, so went with a cable. The Avid BB7 was easily the best of the cable discs available at the time, heaps better than the standard fit Wisper went with (can't remember exactly what it was). The change was very simple, unbolt the one, bolt on the other and change the cables. Motor over run could otherwise be rather unsettling, even for just a short period, when it has significant potency....
 

Phil the drill

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 14, 2008
395
6
TR9
Phil, thanks and YES please!! I would love to do exactly all of those things. But I think I will start with battery, controller and front disc brake. Please send links to battery and controller on BMS if you can. And any other stuff I may need? New connectors? Hall sensor for motor? Or did you change the motor as well?
Hi, back again.
The motor was a standard Bafang BPM 350w 201 rpm model, the controller was a 'universal' motor controller for 350w motors, sold by BMS battery - they do not list it any more, but any 350w brushless motor controller should do the job fine. As I recall (I did all this over 7 yrs ago), a little messing around with connectors was called for and as may be expected, getting it all into the housing was something of a challenge.
Battery replacement was done only a few week ago and the battery came from BMS battery again. It was a 36v 17.4 Ah, Panasonic cell bottle battery. It was supplied with a mounting plate and just fits behind the seat post. The old mounting rail needs to be removed, along with the battery lock (the new mounting plate has its own lock). The battery connector needs to be cut off, the wire trimmed and soldered to battery connector on the mounting plate. To my mind, this makes for a much neater battery installation anyhow. To fit the plate, you can use the top mounting hole for the old rail, but you will need to drill and tap the frame lower down (bit of a fiddle as little access for the drill and tap low down in the frame) and fit a mounting bolt through tbottom of the new mounting plate. The top mounting of the new plate is too high to be used and you will need to be able to gently flex the top of the mounting (it seems well up to this), when fitting and removing the battery. Although a slight fiddle it is quite straightforward when you get the technique.
Pics. of battery and mounting plate attached. Note sorry about state of bike, well overdue for a wash and brush up...

https://goo.gl/photos/N7Jk43rDsupSPmWt5

 
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Chris Maluszynski

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
196
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Wow! Thanks Phil.

That looks great! I was really hoping that battery would fit - and happy it does! It looks great.

I was planning to get a 48V battery - does anyone understand why these two are the same price while they have different capacities?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/819-48v116ah-case-08-bottle-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/778-48v116ah-case-08-bottle-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html

And maybe this controller?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/802-s-ku63-250w15a-6mosfets-controller-ebike-kit.html

Does that work with any of their LCDs? And d8veh was talking about changing a wire to fit the wheel speed sensor - but not sure which one that is? Is it something I can get from BMS?

Also - will this work with the old brakes levers?

And regarding disc brakes - since my bike has brake pads I suspect the fork doesn't have a disc brake mounts - I'd probably need to get a new fork and front wheel - might try to get it all off an old mtb bike.

Cheers

Chris
 

Chris Maluszynski

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
196
1
49
Your motor will give about 60% more torque with that setup. It'll be much quieter and about 30% faster. You can set the speed limit in the controller, and each level gives a different power, so you have a choice of 5 power levels.
Just to double check - the motor is 250W - but the above still applies if I put in a 48V battery and new controller?
 
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Deleted member 4366

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The motor doesn't care whrether 36v or 48v. When you run higher voltage it gives more power and torque, so better on hills, but don't let it struggle on steep hills. Try and keep it spinning to avoid over-heating.

Those two bateries have different cells in them. Only the case is the same.

Don't waste your time with the KU93. The PAS function is useless and it's too big to put in the compartment. You need to check whether your motor is sensored or sensorless before choosing a controller.

250w stamping/label on the motor makes it legal. You can use any controller or battery you want up to 48v.
 

Chris Maluszynski

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
196
1
49
The motor doesn't care whrether 36v or 48v. When you run higher voltage it gives more power and torque, so better on hills, but don't let it struggle on steep hills. Try and keep it spinning to avoid over-heating.

Keep it spinning? As in not let the bike slow down too much?

Those two bateries have different cells in them. Only the case is the same.

But both are Panasonic? So why would anyone buy the lower AH one?

Don't waste your time with the KU93. The PAS function is useless and it's too big to put in the compartment. You need to check whether your motor is sensored or sensorless before choosing a controller.

Ok - but how do I find this out?

250w stamping/label on the motor makes it legal. You can use any controller or battery you want up to 48v.

Great!
 
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Deleted member 4366

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Sorry, one is 40 cells, the other is 50 cells of the same type, so the 40 cell one has 20% empty space in the case and weighs less., but 40 cells is only good for about 18 amps., while as 50 cells would be OK up to 22 amps.

Count the wires in the motor harness. Three is sensorless. Three thick and 5 or more thin wires is sensored.

More power generally means that you can go faster up hills, so it's not such a problem to keep the motor spinning, but don't let it stay at 8 mph or less at full power for too long. A short hill would be OK, but not an alp.
 
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Chris Maluszynski

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
196
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Reviving this thread, as I finally managed to order a battery. So I got this one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-NO-taxes-48V-14-5Ah-lithium-ion-Hairon-LG-cells-inside-ebike-battery-pack/253314155529?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

And now I'm wondering what else I need to get. I did check that the motor is a sensored version (a whole bunch of wires).

I am little concerned about overheating it as I often tow stuff on my bike in a trailer and up pretty steep hills. Torque is therefore much more important to me than speed, but if I am to hook up this 48V battery to the existing motor, which controller should I use (still the one you suggested D8veh? - or are there other versions I should consider now)

I suppsoe I also need an LCD and new wiring - but will the old pedal sensor and brake sensors work?
 
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Deleted member 4366

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You need a controller and LCD. The throttle and LCD should work OK as long as you make sure that the wires go in the right sequence at the connectors. I would use the 17A KT sinewave one from PSWpower.com.

Those batteries can be a bit awkward to fit because the slots for the fixings are at the top end so they don't line up with your bottle mount screws. You'll probably need to add your own rivnuts to the frame to hold it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grooved-Steel-Nutserts-Blindnut-4-5-6-8-mm-Serrated-Rivet-Nuts-Threaded-Rivnut/121578747347?hash=item1c4ea875d3:m:mlZLdTsp6Aq0O7FM934zVLg