Small children uphill on a full suspended bike

[Elris]

Hello!
I'm from Italy and I would like to buy a pedalec.
I have two small children and I'm usually bringing them on a baby seat and with a trail-gator: Trail-Gator Child Bike Tow Bar
But I also love mtb and downhill.
I need to go on a very steep road to go home.
It's a couple of weeks that I'm looking for a pedalec and so foud I've founded Haibike eQ Xduro FS RX (Bosch)- Haibike -, Ktm E-Lycan (Bionx) - e-Lycan - and Flyer X 29" Xt (Panasonic) - BikeTec - X-Serie.   -.

Which one do you suggest? Are there any others good options?

Thanks a lot!

 

[flecc]

For hill climbing and towing weight, the Haibike is probably the best. That's because it transmits it's power through the gears like motor vehicles, making the best use of it in all circumstances. In addition, the Bosch power unit it uses is one of the most powerful of that type. The Flyer X also works that way but the Panasonic power unit is a little less powerful, though rather smoother operating, and it does have a longer range with its much larger battery. So if you don't need a long range and don't mind the power shutting off abruptly at 25 kph, it's the Haibike. If you want longer range and prefer the power to phase down smoothly approaching 25 kph, it's the Flyer X.

I do a lot of towing but I personally don't like rear suspension for that purpose since it doesn't have the same control over the trailer that a rigid bike has. However, that's just a personal preference and in your case you clearly like having it.

 

[Elris]

For hill climbing and towing weight, the Haibike is probably the best. That's because it transmits it's power through the gears like motor vehicles, making the best use of it in all circumstances. In addition, the Bosch power unit it uses is one of the most powerful of that type. The Flyer X also works that way but the Panasonic power unit is a little less powerful, though rather smoother operating, and it does have a longer range with its much larger battery. So if you don't need a long range and don't mind the power shutting off abruptly at 25 kph, it's the Haibike. If you want longer range and prefer the power to phase down smoothly approaching 25 kph, it's the Flyer X.

I do a lot of towing but I personally don't like rear suspension for that purpose since it doesn't have the same control over the trailer that a rigid bike has. However, that's just a personal preference and in your case you clearly like having it.

Thank you very much Flecc for your excellent answer.
Unit Power: did you compare today's Panasonic to Haibike's Bosch? I suppose that on 2012 Flyer X there will be a 36V unit. Somebody also told me that Deluxe versions will be equipped with 350W. Would such a unit still be less powerful than Bosch's one?

Rear Suspension: I think it should be possible to lock the rear suspension. So, if you're alone on mtb you can unlock it and when you need to carry a baby seat or tow a bike or something else you can lock it.

New Flyer X has some more things I like a lot. Tour version has Rohloff on it. This means that it's possible to use a better gear to climb hills than Xt. And there will also be 29". With Haibike, it's possible to have 29" or full suspension, but not both!

 

[flecc]

I don't know if the Flyer X for 2012 will be 36 volts, but I suspect it might not be. To get up to the 15 and later 16 Ah batteries at 26 volts, the Pansonic unit has to be modified with a wider battery platform and different cranks to clear the wide battery. To squeeze in the same 16 Ah at 36 volts would seem to be difficult.

All those trying the Bosch unit against the current Panasonic units report it's greater power, but that may well change with the 2012 36 volt Panasonic versions, since they are clearly responding to the challenge from Bosch.

I haven't tried the Flyer X, but one of our members, Eddieo, has tried the Flyer X and also owns a Bosch powered bike, and he appears to think the Flyer X the best bike of these choices, only the high price against it.

I didn't know of that size/suspension choice restriction on the Haibike, thanks for the information.

 

[Elris]

I don't know if the Flyer X for 2012 will be 36 volts, but I suspect it might not be. To get up to the 15 and later 16 Ah batteries at 26 volts, the Pansonic unit has to be modified with a wider battery platform and different cranks to clear the wide battery. To squeeze in the same 16 Ah at 36 volts would seem to be difficult.

http://www.flyer.ch/m/mandanten/145/download/Neuheiten2011_HaendlerBrosch_Preise_dtEURO.pdf

If you give a look to the last two lines of X-Series you should see the 29" I'm interested in. Their power unit should be Panasonic 36v.

Does somebody have Panasonic's web site?

 

[flecc]

Thanks Elris, clearly the 29" is 36 volts, but the battery capacity has dropped from the 16 Ah to 12 Ah to squeeze it in. That's still 50% larger than the Bosch battery though.

I've never found any Panasonic site in other than Japanese language, though they do publish odd pages of sales information in English from time to time. Here's the Japanese site link:

panabyc.co.jp

 

[Elris]

Thanks Elris, clearly the 29" is 36 volts, but the battery capacity has dropped from the 16 Ah to 12 Ah to squeeze it in. That's still 50% larger than the Bosch battery though.

Flyer's web site is really the worst possible. Anyway, on their German dealer website it's possible I found these options:

Zusatz Lithium-Ionen Akku 8 Ah 36V Preis 595,- €
Zusatz Lithium-Ionen Akku 12 Ah 36V Preis 745,- €
Zusatz Lithium-Ionen Akku 14 Ah 36V Preis 895,- €

SWISS FLYER X-Serie Preise und Varianten

So, it should be possible to have both 14h and 36v on Flyer X.

 

[flecc]

I agree Elris, I've always found the Flyer website frustrating, and in past years it was very much worse than now.

If true that 14 Ah is promising. Since the old 26v 16Ah was 416 Wh, the 36v 12Ah one 432 Wh and the 36v 14Ah one 504 Wh, both those newer version gains in battery content. The Bosch is only 288 Wh of course.

 

[Elris]

So, do you think that with the new 36v unit Panasonic motor should be as powerful as Bosch's one?

 

[eddieo]

Elris, I have answered your PM as best I can, but you should really put this on main forum? all the best Eddie

"Both my children are at Uni so not much help. but I see flecc has answered this...

yes a bosch powered bike I would think? The KTM Macina that we had is nice and only £1800. plenty of better spec'd Bosch bikes for around £2300.

The flyer x WAS my favoirite bike. if you are happy with an illegal bike, the new 2012 Kalkhoff pro connect, has one model at approx £2400 (350watt Bosch) thats what I would look at....."

But if just for going out towing the kids, the 250 watt Bosch is more then adequate!

 

[flecc]

So, do you think that with the new 36v unit Panasonic motor should be as powerful as Bosch's one?

Yes, that's my best guess, since it's clear that Panasonic are responding to the competition from Bosch so would want to at least match it.

As Eddie says, either the Bosch or 2012 Panasonic units will be suitable, though the Flyer X has the edge on range length with it's larger batteries. Bosch will probably announce a larger battery in due course though, such is competition.

 

[Elris]

The flyer x WAS my favoirite bike. if you are happy with an illegal bike, the new 2012 Kalkhoff pro connect, has one model at approx £2400 (350watt Bosch) thats what I would look at....."[/COLOR][/I]

But if just for going out towing the kids, the 250 watt Bosch is more then adequate!

What changed your mind about Flyer X?

I'm not just looking for towing my kids. Actually I do a lot of mtb because I live on a hills among woods and I have second house on high mountain. So, I'd like to buy a bike that could suit both uses: fun on mtb and fun with family.

I saw this wonderful Kalkhoff Kalkhoff : 2012

I love the Xtr, but what I would miss is that it's not a 29" and it's not full suspended.