Spot the difference...

[flecc]

The claimed life of compound cathode polymer batteries in e-bike use is proving true in the oldest cases Dave. The oldest Panasonic 26 volt 10 Ah battery of this type on our market is just about reaching five years on e-bike purchases in November/December 2007, and we have a number of members running them regularly at four years old. Some of those even report no loss of indicated capacity on the integrated test meter, others just triggering the 20% loss mark which is minimal.

 

[Kudoscycles]

We agree on something at last!

All the best

David

Carpe Diem!
01227 792792
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[billadie]

"Hi Billadie,pulled the following from my website,the statement is 18 month old but I cannot see much has changed.

A big factor when considering the long term ownership costs of an electric bicycle. The most popular battery recently fitted to e-bikes has been lithium manganese, this has an average recharge limit of 500 cycles (say, 2 years) and can cost minimum £400 plus for a replacement battery. All Kudos cycles, unless stated otherwise, are fitted with the latest lithium phosphate battery (LiFePO4) which are cheaper to replace (current average price £200.00 incl 20% VAT) and have a recharge limit of over 1500 cycles (say, 5 years). They also have a very low self discharge rate, even when left unused"".

Well Dave, an 18 month old website is not going to be totally up to date, but if you are using it as a sales tool, then yes, it has to be reviewed.

For example, although Bionix may charge £1000 for a battery,Woosh currently demand £195 to £215 for a 10Ah, £299 for a 15Ah, ETS charge £350, but will re-cell existing one for £369 for 14Ah, Freego are £250 for 10Ah. As these last three are more likely your competitors than Bionx, it is a bit much to say that the MINIMUM can be £400.

As for battery life, I will leave that for more knowlegable members.My own Phylion 10Ah is now 33 months old and has run 7300 + miles. It can still manage 18/20 miles (throttle
& pedal). I am in the process of replacing it with a 15Ah from BMS battery at a cost of £206) battery & charger plus import duty and VAT.

I do appreciate the efforts that Kudos has done to promote ebikes but as I am sure you will agree, exaggerated claims and comparisons help no-one.

Bill

 

[flecc]

In my reply to Kudos I did state the BionX price was a daft example. I'm quite sure no-one would use it for comparison since it would be likely to put anyone off getting into e-biking!

 

[Kudoscycles]

In my reply to Kudos I did state the BionX price was a daft example. I'm quite sure no-one would use it for comparison since it would be likely to put anyone off getting into e-biking!

Flecc,dont worry I will be very fair on modifying my battery FAQ's,its more info than about selling support these days.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Kudoscycles]

"Hi Billadie,pulled the following from my website,the statement is 18 month old but I cannot see much has changed.

A big factor when considering the long term ownership costs of an electric bicycle. The most popular battery recently fitted to e-bikes has been lithium manganese, this has an average recharge limit of 500 cycles (say, 2 years) and can cost minimum £400 plus for a replacement battery. All Kudos cycles, unless stated otherwise, are fitted with the latest lithium phosphate battery (LiFePO4) which are cheaper to replace (current average price £200.00 incl 20% VAT) and have a recharge limit of over 1500 cycles (say, 5 years). They also have a very low self discharge rate, even when left unused"".

Well Dave, an 18 month old website is not going to be totally up to date, but if you are using it as a sales tool, then yes, it has to be reviewed.

For example, although Bionix may charge £1000 for a battery,Woosh currently demand £195 to £215 for a 10Ah, £299 for a 15Ah, ETS charge £350, but will re-cell existing one for £369 for 14Ah, Freego are £250 for 10Ah. As these last three are more likely your competitors than Bionx, it is a bit much to say that the MINIMUM can be £400.

As for battery life, I will leave that for more knowlegable members.My own Phylion 10Ah is now 33 months old and has run 7300 + miles. It can still manage 18/20 miles (throttle
& pedal). I am in the process of replacing it with a 15Ah from BMS battery at a cost of £206) battery & charger plus import duty and VAT.

I do appreciate the efforts that Kudos has done to promote ebikes but as I am sure you will agree, exaggerated claims and comparisons help no-one.

Bill

Bill,I had already decided to update tomorrow. The prices of both bikes and spares is falling,some of the trade had a real go at Kudos when we came on the scene,especially about our battery prices,now some of the others have caught up or should I say caught down.
There is also a shift between direct internet sellers and those offering dealer support,the latter obviously has to allow a profit for the dealer,dealers are like parachutes-you hopefully never need one but glad you had one if you need it!
Out of interest how is that BMS battery being sent to you? After that batch of batteries blew a hole in the side of a US air courier plane (it landed just!) then CAA have started to get more aggressive about batteries in airplanes,the fines for incorrect labelling can be massive(20,000 euros).
thanks
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[eddieo]

In my reply to Kudos I did state the BionX price was a daft example. I'm quite sure no-one would use it for comparison since it would be likely to put anyone off getting into e-biking!

OK.. but BioniX a fine and well respected product, and very popular in Europe where they realise quality costs a bit more,.. to include kudos in the same conversation? f'ing laughable...

 

[billadie]

Hi Dave,

"Out of interest how is that BMS battery being sent to you? After that batch of batteries blew a hole in the side of a US air courier plane (it landed just!) then CAA have started to get more aggressive about batteries in airplanes,the fines for incorrect labelling can be massive(20,000 euros).
thanks
Dave
Kudoscycles"

It came DHL, by air. Arrived today.
BMS say that Fedex will not accept batteries, but DHL will.

Regards

Bill

 

[Kudoscycles]

Bill,it can only be a matter of time that all couriers will refuse to accept lithium batteries above a certain Ah without expensive special handling and labelling,that is the current situation with most couriers. We dont airship any batteries,all now have to come by sea.
I have updated our website in line with your and flecc's suggestions,I trust you find my updates fair.
Thanks for your interest.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Caph]

Hi Caph, sorry but it didn't, we designed the original. It did not exist until we designed it. I am not sure how many ways I can put this but we sat down and drew the original and others have copied us. My huge mistake was to take the first page on the Made In China web pages, a lot of Chinese factories seeing the bike made a copy. Exactly which bike are you saying preceded us with our design?

Best regards

David

David, I'll see if I can get hold of the photo for you. Quite why you are taking offense at this I don't know. The Wisper bike as we have all seen is the bog standard Chinese design that can take a battery behind the seat. If you really took the time to sit down and design that then your designer took you for a mug. Standard front triangle, elongated rear triangle to accomodate a battery. Oh, wait a minute, that's the standard ebike design that the Chinese designed before you were sucking at the teat. You might as well claim you invented the Samurai sword before the Japanese.

David, you are many things to many people, but the inventor of the basic "Wisper" (aka Chinese standard) design, you are not.

 

[Old_Dave]

Chinese whispers ... Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[halfer]

Caph, I can't see (from this thread at least) that your rudeness to David is warranted here. I've read enough of his posts here to find his contributions both interesting and civil. Can you not disagree with greater politeness?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks a lot Halfer I really appreciate your kind words, this is getting ridiculous.

Caph is absolutely correct, we were by no means the first to put a battery behind the seat post, use a triangular frame or elongate the rear stays. What Caph wont find, unless someone does a photoshop job, is the use of the curved cross bar and down tube with the hydroformed flared cross bar towards the stem and the gusset at the seat post and crossbar junction in the classic Wisper style that we all know...... The frame was designed like this for its distinctive looks, strength and rigidity.

Even I am becoming a little bored with constantly repeating myself, and apologise to the forum for prolonging this rather tedious subject.

All the best

David

 

[eddieo]

while I never much liked the 905 style of curved crossbar, having pretty conservative taste regards how a bike should look, it is a very practical design and the only crossbar bike my wife was happy to ride. loved the 905 in general though a fine bike

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I agree Eddie, the frame is not to everyones taste but is has become a bit of a trade mark for Wisper over the years. I find it quite interesting that in the whole world bikes that are "similar" to the Wisper 9 series style electric bike mainly turn up in the UK and hardly anywhere else, unless Wisper has a presence in that country. Bikes with similar styling normally arrive after we have been selling in a particular area for a couple of years or so.

There have been over the years many hundreds of thousands of bike frame designs, some more distinctive than others and of course there have been push bikes of all shapes and sizes many with curved and hydro formed tubes and gussets. We were simply the first to put the Wisper 9 series combination together. We have stuck with the design for more than seven years now, although if you look at the original and what we have now there a many subtle changes that I think make the bike even more attractive.

OK I'm done!

All the best

David

 

[Scatty]

Nope Not attractive at all you need to get out more..

 

[flecc]

The big advantage with having curved frame tubes in alloy frames is the gain in ride quality and comfort. Unlike the steel frames we used to have, alloy frames have little flexibility and having straight tubes all the way between headstock and rear wheel makes for harsh transmission of road shocks throughout the bike. Those Rolls-Royces of e-bikes, the BikeTec Flyers, have always had their trademark "S bend" downtubes for that reason, even on their folder.

 

[eddieo]

The big advantage with having curved frame tubes in alloy frames is the gain in ride quality and comfort. Unlike the steel frames we used to have, alloy frames have little flexibility and having straight tubes all the way between headstock and rear wheel makes for harsh transmission of road shocks throughout the bike. Those Rolls-Royces of e-bikes, the BikeTec Flyers, have always had their trademark "S bend" downtubes for that reason, even on their folder.

Met chap on holiday who had bought 2 Swiss Flyers with new Panasonic 36 V system for 1400€ each...he couldn't believe his luck either. def more bikes around now at decent prices.

yes the 905 a very comfortable bike with or without the flag

and Swiss flyer S or X series nicest bikes I have ever ridden for sure...