Xiongda Hub Motor

phil4819

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 7, 2016
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Hi, I new to the site.
I have a Montague Paratrooper which I want electrifying.
I fancy the Xiongda 2 speed rear hub motor (from Pandaebikes and direct from Xiongda Motors in China)
Can anyone suggest someone who would supply and fit or just fit if I supply.
Thanks Phil in Lancaster
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
The Xiongda motor is not easy to fit, so it should only be done by someone that knows what they're doing. The problem is the width. You need to stretch the frame. Consider a Q128 CST kit at 48v from BMSBattery if it's the torque you need.

You'd also need to drill the frame and fix in some riv-nuts so that you can mount a battery on top or underneath the main frame member (crossbar).
 

phil4819

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 7, 2016
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Thanks for that d8veh
Just had a look at your post about BMS batteries. You obviously convert a lot of bikes. Would you convert my Montague Paratrooper for me (I can come to Telford) or point me towards someone who would?
Phil in Lancaster
 
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Deleted member 4366

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What is it exactly that you're trying to achieve: Power, distance, torque, speed, weight, etc? Also, what's your budget?
 

phil4819

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 7, 2016
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Thanks for your time and patience d8veh
What is the difference between the Q100 and Q128 you mentioned? And which wattage motor did you have in mind, assuming the power would be restricted to 250w by the controller?

2 weeks ago I knew nothing about electric bikes other than having ridden one in Seville and a Raliegh Motus at Centre Parks. Since then I have spent £580 on a folding 26” wheel MTB the first of which stopped working on the first day and the replacement developed a fault on the first day so I have returned it for a refund. (I will not mention the make/supplier until I have my refund)
I the last 2 days I have ridden a couple more including a Xiongda front wheel, unfortunately only on the flat so not really a trial. The Xiongda would have to be a front wheel because of the drop out widths. And bear in mind the front wheel is removed on the paratrooper for folding so this would be a spanner and disconnection job with the torque arm to consider. But to be fair the folding will not happen often and a bit of dis/reassembly is OK.

To answer your question as to my requirements.

Power – obviously limited to 250w for legality
(Although how is this bike legal? https://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/hill-climbers/Smarta-GT8-Smarta GT8 Electric-Bike
Speed - the 15mph restriction if fine.
Distance – 30 miles would be nice with assistance. The bike I returned had a frog 36v 10ah battery and when the PAS packed up it was down to 1 of three battery level indicators after 10 miles using the throttle for assistance.
Torque – probably the most important for hauling my 68year old 105kg carcase up hills.
(the bike in the link boasted 45NM) this is where the Xiongda’s 20/40NM is tempting.
Budget – none, but no-one wants to spend more than they have to. I struggle to see where the money is in some of the £2k+ bikes.

It’s choosing the right components I need help with. I realise he Paratrooper does not lend itself to electrification.
A rear hub motor is the favourite although I have not ruled out a crank drive if one will fit or even Xiongda front wheel.
A rear carrier battery including controller or controller in a pouch under the back of the saddle and battery(s) in the pannier bags possibly purpose made shrink wrapped. The carrier that comes with the bike actually disconnects from the seat post and pivots around the wheel to act as a stand and for folding. But I do not have to use that. A seat post quick release carrier and battery could be the answer. I do not care for the frog type (past experience also the battery fouled with the quick release seat post ring requiring brute force) although they are a neat solution.

Do I seem to have answered all my own questions? If so, I would like your opinions on my thinking and suggesting the best products. I would prefer to buy in the UK. And whilst I am quite capable as a retired engineer of fitting a kit myself, I would prefer to go to someone who has experience with electric bikes.

Sorry for such a lengthy response but all the facts are relevant I think.

Phil in Lancaster
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
the woosh zephyr-b shows pretty much what can be achieved in a format similar to your Paratrooper. I like riding it in the woods. The combination of a well tucked in rear wheel, a rear powerful BPM, throttle and hydraulic brakes makes it very easy to control power precisely on muddy tracks and tricky narrow places.
Beats a BBS01 any day. Woosh will offer 13AH battery with it soon.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?zephyr-b
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
Hub-motor kits are a very grey area when it comes to legality. Even the Xiongda is rated at 190-350w, whatever that means. It could be interpreted as 350w; however, as long as the motor is marked 250w and the speed limited to 25 kph, you should be OK. The Xiongda doesn't have its power marked on it. None of this is really a problem in reality because nobody seems interested in checking at the present time. As long as you ride responsibly, you should be OK.

Your problem is to get a motor with enough torque because 105kg and steep hills needs a lot. If you're not bothered about the grey area of legality, there's a lot more options. There's a few commercially available legal kits that you can buy with reasonable torque, mainly based on the bigger Bafang BPM/CST motors, and there's the Ezee kit. They're all relatively heavy. A removable front motor wheel is not going to work. The Q128C at 48v would do it. It's a small motor, so it looks legal, but it isn't because it's rated at 500w.

Considering your bike, I would say that the Bafang BBS001 or similar would be a good choice. Alternatively, a 48v hub motor, but nobody offers them in a legal kit that I know of.

Your bike is a very difficult one to convert if you want to keep the folding. I'd be surprised if any normal converter would touch it. You could try sending a photo of your bike to Woosh and Cyclezee to see if they'd convert it with a legal high torque kit, but you'd need to sort out where the battery would go. My favourite would be this type mounted on top of the frame, if there's room, though that requires fixings to be added to the frame:
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?karoo

Personally, I think it would be a lot cheaper to forget converting your bike. Sell it and get the Woosh Zephyr B with the 13h battery when it comes.
 
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Cyclezee

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This YouTube video shows a conversion with a Heinzmann Classic system and a back pack battery.
To my mind a rear motor conversion is the best choice for this bike and there is lots of choice out there.
 
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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
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The European Union
The Montague road bike is on my short list of useful bikes to convert:

- different frame sizes
- 700C wheels full sized bike for longer distances
- can be taken on the train or bus as free bagage when folded and bagged
- will fit folded in my future boat
- ...

My choice would be to put a mid drive and a Inter 8 hub gear to enable a completely protected chain line. The bike will be 6 kg heavier to lift but will still only be 20 kg without the battery. There are lots of options for the battery - pannier bag, triangle bag hung under the top bar, on the rack, on the frame...
 

phil4819

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 7, 2016
6
0
75
If I was going to sell the Paratrooper and go for an off the shelf folding MTB are there any other suggestions than the Woosh Zephyr B. Woosh is a long way from Lancaster.
Bearing in mind its a high torque motor I need, what about the Pedalease M25. It has a 10.4ah battery and is only £700!!
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
If I was going to sell the Paratrooper and go for an off the shelf folding MTB are there any other suggestions than the Woosh Zephyr B. Woosh is a long way from Lancaster.
Bearing in mind its a high torque motor I need, what about the Pedalease M25. It has a 10.4ah battery and is only £700!!
Nowhere near the power of the Zephyr B.
 

phil4819

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 7, 2016
6
0
75
I have been offered a Powabyke Explorer with the Paratrooper as part exchange. How does that compare with the zephyr what is the power of the zephyr. Why is the zephyr so much better than the Pedalease M25 when they are both rated at 250watt. How is it possible to tell the differences between 2 bikes of the same power. No one ever publishes the torques. Phil
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
the zephyr has much more torquey 8-Fun BPM motor, the M25 has standard 8-Fun SWX. The zephyr has front and rear hydraulic brakes, the M25 has mechanical brakes. The zephyr has remote preload adjust on the front suspension.