Yet Another London Cyclist Death Today

Clockwise

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 28, 2013
438
53
I cycle in london and live almost on one of the "cycle super highways" and tbh I see awful cyclists each day. The only thing I think that saves them is how stop start cars have to be in the city so they can't hit them more often at higher speeds.

Jumping lights is just dumb, even on straight roads when it isn't a cross roads it will just end up that your routine is jumping a set of lights and you bike into a pedestrian stepping out.

'cycle boxes' at traffic lights are often awfully placed and have a car in them anyway, I personally place myself in the left 1/2 of the outside lane and then if I know the lights won't change for a moment attempt to make eye contact with the driver behind me even just for a second. I also look back and make a mental note of any trucks or buses that will maybe fly past me in the next few moments.

I also sometimes will place myself even more into the middle of the lane if I feel the car behind is going to try and zoom around me to the right and then cut past me to turn left as soon as the lights go. Funny enough I had someone follow me across the lights to complain about that tactic the other day, when I explained he was still angry but he did admit "yeah, you pulled away faster than most cyclists so could have clipped you maybe BUT I wouldn't..."

Passing parked cars can also be fatal, look back over your shoulder and if you don't have the space slow down or stop to let the car pass first. I'm also overly cautious of opening car doors since my only accident about 10 years ago was when I went past a line of stopped cars and the 3rd or 4th one opened his door on me to get his door full of 15mph bmx.

Look out for them flashing blue lights too, pull over to a safe spot and let them pass as all road users should.
...does it tell you how to safely, make a right turn on a busy, narrow main road, with huge trucks thundering past at 30mph on both sides...the intersection may well have been clear 10 seconds sooner as you approached but all that can change in the blink of an eye.
....roads are a bloody nightmare and many motorists are not prepared to slow down for a cyclist.
Plan your route before you leave. I personally favour google maps and despite living by the south circular can usually plan out a route that will have me using safer roads, if I'm unsure I look at the street view.
 

Biker44

Pedelecer
Jan 12, 2012
123
2
I'm afraid they are, one cyclist collided with and killed an elderly man in London last year. Slow reacting pedestrians like the elderly or the very young can be at real risk from a rider and bike combination which can exceed 120 kilos at 20mph or more.
Hold on, the great majority of these deaths are pedestrians who have stepped into the road in front of the cyclist.

Rather few are caused by reckless cycling on the pavement.

Care to tell us what happened in this case, and perhaps avoid giving the impression that cyclists are a menace?

(Also worth noting, a 20mph collision is probably some 80 or 90% safer than a 30mph collision, which is xxx safer than a 40mph collision etc)
 

Biker44

Pedelecer
Jan 12, 2012
123
2
...does it tell you how to safely, make a right turn on a busy, narrow main road, with huge trucks thundering past at 30mph on both sides...
Yes. Get off and push.

many motorists are not prepared to slow down for a cyclist.
The cyclist who expects traffic to slow down for them does us no credit. Either force them to take notice, demanding their attention, or else get completely out of their way, preferably onto the pavement.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,790
30,369
Hold on, the great majority of these deaths are pedestrians who have stepped into the road in front of the cyclist.

Rather few are caused by reckless cycling on the pavement.

Care to tell us what happened in this case, and perhaps avoid giving the impression that cyclists are a menace?

(Also worth noting, a 20mph collision is probably some 80 or 90% safer than a 30mph collision, which is xxx safer than a 40mph collision etc)
Don't misread what I posted, I wasn't saying all or even any cyclists were a menace. I was responding to Amigafan who posted this, his implication being that bikes could not be a danger to people:

"incompetent cyclists on the road aren't really a danger to anyone else, I mean, they aren't going to be a danger to a cement mixer are they?"

My post illustrated that bikes can be and sometimes are dangerous to pedestrians, regardless of whose fault a collision is.

The greatest advance in cycling safety will come when cyclists stop obsessing about who's to blame and spend their time and effort in what they are doing on the roads. That's what I do and it's kept me safe and never injured in 67 years of cycling, despite the behaviour of others.
 

danfoto

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2010
395
33
Sarfeast England
The cyclist who expects traffic to slow down for them does us no credit. Either force them to take notice, demanding their attention, or else get completely out of their way, preferably onto the pavement.
I was right with you - until those last four words.
 

vectra

Pedelecer
Feb 5, 2011
213
5
...does it tell you how to safely, make a right turn on a busy, narrow main road, with huge trucks thundering past at 30mph on both sides...the intersection may well have been clear 10 seconds sooner as you approached but all that can change in the blink of an eye.
....roads are a bloody nightmare and many motorists are not prepared to slow down for a cyclist.
True however too many of us are not prepared to dismount when at a hazardous crossing. Doesn't bother me however I do watch anxiously sometimes as riders weave and bob about in traffic. Why not interrupt your ride for 15 seconds or so? More of us may stay alive. Yes, we do have a right to ride on roads however we have a responsibility to do so in a way which accepts that some drivers quite clearly do not think we should be there.
 

Mike63

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 23, 2008
809
64
Yes. Get off and push.
....If you think that standing with a bike in the middle of a busy road with huge trucks thundering past on either side a scant 2 feet away makes you feel safe, then obviously you have never been there or you have nerves of steel.

In the unfortunate likelyhood of an accident in these circumstances the response would be:
...."What on eath was this idiot doing standing in the middle of the road with a bike, we cannot blame the truck driver"

....occasionally one encounters a motorist with a touch of compassion...he's probably a cyclist......who'll take his foot off the accelerator for a nano second and flash his lights giving you the opportunity to cross.

Either force them to take notice, demanding their attention,
...do you not think that standing in the middle of the road with a bike, demands their attention ?
 

peerjay56

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 24, 2013
745
201
Nr Ingleton, N. Yorkshire
I understood 'get off and push' to mean dismount at the side of the road, stand with your bike on the pavement, and then cross when (and where) safe to do so.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 

Scimitar

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 31, 2010
1,772
40
Ireland
I understood 'get off and push' to mean dismount at the side of the road, stand with your bike on the pavement, and then cross when (and where) safe to do so.
Exactly so.
I recall the copper who instructed my primary class in Cycling Proficiency (who remembers that, eh?) said something about that. I suspect that was before 'commanding your lane' and all that which came later. Back then, you weren't taught to be a shrinking mouse, but to be aware that you would get squashed, squished and die very messily if you were stupid, to not put too fine a point on it.
 

Mike63

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 23, 2008
809
64
I understood 'get off and push' to mean dismount at the side of the road, stand with your bike on the pavement, and then cross when (and where) safe to do so.
....you will recall that in my "example" when I was approaching my right turn, my exit was clear, this only changed as I was about to make my turn...vehicles travelling at 30mph close distances very quickly.

Are you suggesting that at every junction I should dismount and cross by foot ?
....possibly not such a bad idea but is that what you really do ? ...I don't believe it.
I could give you 100 instances where "should have" would be applicable but we don't live our lives retrospectively.

It is easy to be critical of a situation after the event but in practice it is not so straight foreward.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,790
30,369
No matter what the traffic is, this is the recipe for right turning safely:

1) Have a mirror and use to to get the manouvre timing right.

2) Punch out a clear hand signal, arm straight out in a positive way. Your hand signal should not limply say, "please may I do this", it should say "This is what is going to happen!".

It's kept me safe for my lifetime, most of it in London boroughs.
 

Clockwise

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 28, 2013
438
53
....you will recall that in my "example" when I was approaching my right turn, my exit was clear, this only changed as I was about to make my turn...vehicles travelling at 30mph close distances very quickly.

Are you suggesting that at every junction I should dismount and cross by foot ?
....possibly not such a bad idea but is that what you really do ? ...I don't believe it.
I could give you 100 instances where "should have" would be applicable but we don't live our lives retrospectively.

It is easy to be critical of a situation after the event but in practice it is not so straight foreward.
If you cycle the route daily then you are cycling the wrong route. Google maps for at most 20 minutes and you can have a dozen other routes that avoid your "favourite" junctions.

I marked out 2 I'm not a huge fan of on the cycle from waterloo to camden town, the lower currently has roadworks so is a huge mess, the higher one is by massive underpass, hospital and euston station and bus stops are just 1 turn away. The other route goes via holborn but remains very straight after cycling in the wrong direction for a little bit.

 

MikeyBikey

Pedelecer
Mar 5, 2013
237
23
Protest Ride Russell Sq tomorrow 6:30pm

Anyone going to the Protest Ride at Russell Sq tomorrow, 6:30pm?
Info from London Cycling Campaign.
(Cyclist should to be careful in charge of 100kg 'vehicle', y
So Driver in 1000kg car will be 10 times more careful, y
And Trucker of 30,000kg will be 300 times more careful, y, how?
just a thought!) ... Mikey
 

peerjay56

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 24, 2013
745
201
Nr Ingleton, N. Yorkshire
....

Are you suggesting that at every junction I should dismount and cross by foot ?
Not at all. You asked in an earlier post if Cyclecraft explained how to cross safely; someone else said 'get off and push' or words to that effect. I gave my interpretation of what 'get off and push' meant to me - you clearly interptreted it differently.

....possibly not such a bad idea but is that what you really do ? ...I don't believe it.
Believe what you like. I wasn't telling you what I do, or would do in a similar situation.
 

thunderblue

Pedelecer
Aug 4, 2009
116
1
Manchester
I agree with Flecc on this one. I was driving (yes, in my car) into work a few weeks ago, waiting to turn right at a filter lane. Traffic coming in the opposite direction stopped when required and my lights turned to green. As an IAM member, I set off cautiously, making sure that no cyclists were coming up the road, hidden on the left hand side of the bus at the front of the queue. Suddenly, a cyclist travelling at a high speed shot across the junction - along the pavement, not on the road and across my path. Fortunately for him I was observant, braked and bibbed the horn. I was able to stop but he was going so fast he almost went over the handlebars into my path as he braked - he did, in fact, almost come off the bike.

Had this been a less observant driver, then this could have been a fatality, given the speed he was going. OK, then only he would have been hurt, but I would hate that to happen to me as a driver, even though I know there was nothing I could have done any different - but for the timing this could have a different ending, if for example he had been a second or two later. Lucky for him I am a cyclist and IAM trained!
 

Mike63

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 23, 2008
809
64
Punch out a clear hand signal, arm straight out in a positive way. Your hand signal should not limply say, "please may I do this", it should say "This is what is going to happen!".
cheers Flecc...drivers in your neck of the woods may be more cosiderate, I can recall more than one incident where a hand signal was no guarantee of safe passage. :)

Just recently at that same junction, I had made the signal, replaced my hand back on the handlebars about to make my turn when a car shot past on my offside, at a far greater speed that the legal 30mph and clipped my mirror, a second sooner and he'd have got my hand ... a second later and he'd have got me.
I did actually, at that point, determine in future, to cross on foot.
....but as we all know... the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I know a guy who has got rid of his bike...he was scared to ride it...say's he wasn't but he was.
 

Mike63

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 23, 2008
809
64
Believe what you like. I wasn't telling you what I do, or would do in a similar situation.
...sorry Phil...may have offended you...not my intention...my apologies.
 

Mike63

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 23, 2008
809
64
I know a guy who has got rid of his bike...he was scared to ride it...say's he wasn't but he was.
Just as an aside...when was it determined that cyclists do not have the right to safe passage ?

....they appear to have got it about right in Cambridge...why can't we do it everywhere ?