Let's be fair, no more of a plonker than you'd look wearing one of these - new in from the Planet Zulu Minus :
Giro Advantage Time Trial Helmet - Tweeks Cycles
Kalkhoff Endeavour BS10 400Wh
- Thread starter CyberCrime
- Start date
Giro Advantage Time Trial Helmet - Tweeks Cycles
But with this you would look stupid through choice. But with motorcycle helmet it would be a legal requirement.
My goodness, how public spirited of you. Were your potential motivations anything other than commercially driven such a suggestion might have an element in it that could be viewed as something other than sour fruit.
Why single out Kalkhoff's S-Pedelecs ? You may as well target all kit bikes too - because none of them have the relevant 'sign-off', even if their motors, batteries and controllers used together would in principle pass the relevant tests if the expense were incurred by their owners.
If a retailer chooses to run the risks they are breaking no laws selling those bikes and whilst I would not buy one (they're far too expensive for what they are, like so many S-Pedelecs) I have absolutely no doubt that 50Cycles make it explicitly clear to a customer on purchasing that the law required these bikes have a number plate. In fact when I asked about Pro Connects at the Birmingham show they explained that then.
I don't think it gives Kudos any 'kudos' telling tales to the police and trading standards regarding speculation over what another retailer does or does not do when selling a bike to a customer. I certainly hope after making comments like the ones quoted above, neither you nor any of your employees or staff have EVER ridden any bike which is in any way de-restricted at any time on any land to which the public have access (whether there is anyone around or not). Oh wait - you were happily selling bikes conforming to the relevant EU classification but not the UK Road Traffic Act BEFORE the "amnesty on prosecution" without making people aware of the risks of being prosecuted for riding one like everyone else. Hmmmm ...........
I do think it's time for childish personal wars on the part of retailers to cease. I for one am not interested in who said what about who. I'm pretty sure the vast majority if not all S-Pedelec buyers from ANY retail member of this forum are informed of the position regarding S-Pedelecs at the point of sale or before. The cost of S-Pedelecs is such that all but the richest "kid" could not afford one and I'm pretty sure the retailers wouldn't sell one to an under-age rider if they tried to buy one. So surely it's time to shut that book and move on ?
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My post was purely about making the orginal person aware of this. It is the retailer's decision, no legal issue to sell as long as the consumer is informed otherwise it would be miss selling. What I was a bit concerned was people purchasing a bike may not be aware of this as no mention of this on website page but that is not my problem justed want to make the less informed aware. Most people on here would be fine but when we speak to customers alot and many are not aware of the legal side and may draw wrong impression when reading about the bike.
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Im more than willing to beleive this. However why dont they mention this on their website ?. If they did then there would be nothing to complain about. Im pretty certin in the past because of of complaints on here that they have mentioned the facts but as soon as they think no one is looking they seem to just convienienlty forget it again (or as in the its now a type approved moped fail to say what that means).
Typical sales tactics as far as I can see. Mention all the Pro's but while not actually lying fail to mention any of the cons.
I certainly dont have any axe to grind with 50cycles. But I do have a issue with ANY supplier selling illegal bikes without mentioning the fact to potential buyers ASAP. Remember it only takes a few problems to bring it the publics attention and then before we know it all ebikes are banned (Not highly likely but certainly possible).
Like many such things, it's when you get down to signing the paperwork that all the pros and cons are bottomed out. I don't see any warnings on car seller websites that you need a licence and insurance to legally drive one in the UK for example. You can buy a car without being permitted to drive it. Many rich foreigners here do - and cars come in on 'T plates' etc. The insurance industry has only recently caught up to ensure SOMEONE is insured if a car is sold here.
The clue is in the word "moped". If the bike is explicitly stated to have type approval as a moped then, without being funny, it doesn't take a genius to work out that they are buying a moped ! If they don;t understand the implications of that then they can easily look them up - just as I would have to if I bought a motorbike, having never ridden one.
If there is an incident where a bike involved is found to be a moped rather than a pedelec e-Bike classified as a bicycle I don't think it would have any bearing on the rest of the approved eBike market. It's more incidents on APPROVED bikes that will get us all into difficulties - and those can be sold to and used by anyone including those with no driving experience. Plus bought in far greater numbers and legal for kids to ride (yes, quite a few would rather have one than a bike that's hard to pedal I'm sure, for the time they own it before it gets nicked because they forgot to lock it up anyway). So equally if not far more possibly, irresponsible use of legal eBikes by the inexperienced is the biggest worry of all - 'for us all'.
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i agree i have a Pro Connect 2012 model, 50 cycles are supportive and their bikes are top notch, i ride around N.Wales (lots of steep hills here in Snowdonia). I had some teething problems at the beginning but all sorted. It seems to me that when traders start having it is a means of attracting attention to their own product. To me this means that recognition of superior products such as Kalkhoffs is a given. Lesson do you really need to go illegal ?
But it is 50Cycles that are selling the non legal ones !!!!!. So they obvious feel thre is a need for them.
... and if you lived in Snowdonia, I'd hazard you'd feel the same way ... or would just not bother cycling at all and stick to your ST4 !
Find me an 'S-Pedelec' that can manage even 15.5mph up those slopes and I might even fork out for one lol.
For a one off yes but if time after time its turns out that the accidents are involving non insured / taxed /registerd bikes you can bet that there will be discussions on non legal ebikes and how to stop them and the easiest solution (as with most things) is to ban them all legal or not. I really hope this never happens but I have seen it happen with other things so certainly not beyond the realms of possibility.
oh and tucking the word moped away in the detailed description of a bike is no way making it obvious.
and what percentage of cyclists can do this unassisted ?. I wish people would get it in their heads that its a pedal assisted bicycle not a low powered moped.
I think the key is honesty I have no problem with other traders making fair comments about bikes we sell. What I do not agree is when some traders say Bosch powered bikes are rubbish just because they do not sell them. I am honest enough to admit Kalkhoff are good bikes can not commment on their service only had one customer who has experienced that so not representative. Never tested one except on the flat but there are enough good comments to show this likewise with Bosch powered bikes.
Would love to sell speed pedelec in the futurebut waiting to hear how the chap from BH Emotion gets on before considering stocking them. The chap from the company which distributes them is top notch and do like their bikes - I say that even though we do not stock them. If the process is too long and complicated it would make more sense to get a moped.
Would love to sell speed pedelec in the futurebut waiting to hear how the chap from BH Emotion gets on before considering stocking them. The chap from the company which distributes them is top notch and do like their bikes - I say that even though we do not stock them. If the process is too long and complicated it would make more sense to get a moped.
No! But they have some bikes in their range with larger motors which would be classified as mopeds so he is going through the full process to see what it is like before deciding whether to distributed them.
OK I take your point - but think a huge storm is being brewed in a tiny teacup to be honest. Just look at the Financial Services industry - most of what's sold every day has implications so obscurely disclosed even fully trained accountants cannot understand them - and even when things are spelt out in words of one syllable it will likely not change the S-Pedelec market more than a tiny fraction if at all.
There's a clear method of identifying legal versus non-registered eBikes already and to suggest that banning all eBikes is remotely likely as a sledgehammer to crack a tiny walnut of clearly non-registered eBikes is way off the mark. Suggesting that the eBike community must gang up and self-regulate against them on a hypothesis that this is needed to protect those who would likely love to ride an S-Pedelec illegally but for one reason or another have chosen not to cross that line (likely to protect their driving licences or stay out of Court if anything went wrong) is a bit off the mark, GaRRy.
You've got your ST4 - and you have a licence to ride it. So be happy and leave the poor folks who live in Cornwall and North Wales alone - many of them likely can't afford a fancy motorbike, have no bus services either and without a bit more oomph under their feet can't get around at all. And the only people they're likely to hurt are themselves - or maybe give a sheep a bit of a knock if one happens to get loose and stray into their path in a freak accident. Let things run their natural course. If any of the risks so often cited ever actually come about more than once in a blue moon we'll all soon hear about them. In all the years S-Pedelecs have been sold in the UK, you can count on one finger the number of times a reported incident has hit the public domain.
There's a clear method of identifying legal versus non-registered eBikes already and to suggest that banning all eBikes is remotely likely as a sledgehammer to crack a tiny walnut of clearly non-registered eBikes is way off the mark. Suggesting that the eBike community must gang up and self-regulate against them on a hypothesis that this is needed to protect those who would likely love to ride an S-Pedelec illegally but for one reason or another have chosen not to cross that line (likely to protect their driving licences or stay out of Court if anything went wrong) is a bit off the mark, GaRRy.
You've got your ST4 - and you have a licence to ride it. So be happy and leave the poor folks who live in Cornwall and North Wales alone - many of them likely can't afford a fancy motorbike, have no bus services either and without a bit more oomph under their feet can't get around at all. And the only people they're likely to hurt are themselves - or maybe give a sheep a bit of a knock if one happens to get loose and stray into their path in a freak accident. Let things run their natural course. If any of the risks so often cited ever actually come about more than once in a blue moon we'll all soon hear about them. In all the years S-Pedelecs have been sold in the UK, you can count on one finger the number of times a reported incident has hit the public domain.
For the record, I bought a BS10 from 50 cycles last summer, great bike, fantastic performance and build quality. Absolutely from the moment I said I wanted to test ride a demonstrator it was made clear to me by their sales staff the implications of the higher power output and that this was classified as a light electric moped. However how I chose to use the bike once purchased was left to me as a informed adult to decide. Given the cost of a S class bike I find it hard to believe that anyone would purchase one without doing some basic research into pedelecs which would immediately as it did with me, highlight the implications of using one on public roads. From reading reading through the posts on this thread there does appear to be a wide seam of proffesional jealousy and childish petulant finger pointing, but hey, it makes entertaining reading!
And what method would that be allowing for the fact quite a few people on here freely admit they use one and have never been stopped let alone told to stop using it ?. As for wide of mark I have seen it happen with other things so dont say it wouldnt. It would be far easier to ban all electric bikes than the hassle of working out which ones are legal.
Any way its not their use I am taking issue with rather the selling of them without making sure that people are aware they are not legal. Think of this if someone who is banned from driving was to buy one the consequences could involve a up to 2 year prison sentance.
No, that's the whole point - an S-Pedelec is a low powered moped and that's what people buying them want lol. What is more dangerous about crawling up a hill at 15mph and going no faster than a regular bike on a downhill on one of these than riding a bicycle at 25mph unassisted on the flat. In that terrain there is nothing AT ALL more dangerous about an S-Pedelec or LPM than a regular bicycle.
The rules relevant to acceleration and top speed are perhaps appropriate for people using the bikes on canal paths and in cities. The S-Pedelec acceleration on the flat may be greater - but this is of no use on steep hills relative to comparable conditions on the flat as all the power only goes towards achieving speeds which in the end will be less than the legal limit. So all you are achieving is riding within the legal speed and measurable acceleration limits given that your conditions are harsh. Since you cannot legislate "by region" some common sense can - and thankfully does in practice - prevail. There is nothing basically wrong in that.
If I wanted to ride faster and lived somewhere with terrain like Tamworth I would buy a road bike. But I don't. And neither do many other people - and those other people living in areas with terrain like my area are likely one of the principal markets for S-Pedelecs. Those of them who don't have driving licences cannot buy petrol mopeds, motorcycles or cars. But at least they can cycle and accelerate to speeds no greater, no faster, than a cyclist in Tamworth could cycle on the flat unassisted. That is basically the long and short benefit to them. I personally don't think that's either irresponsible or unreasonable when you look at things "in the round". Sometimes it does no harm to set aside the letter of the law and your own circumstances and consider the real position on its own facts in a balanced way.
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No we are not. All currently available NEO 's in UK are fine. The references to a S class NEO is for one you cant currently buy here but it looks like distributor is actively looking at if it can be used legally here by registering it as a moped
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