Good news - ETRA liquidated

[flecc]

ETRA, the European Twowheel Retailers Association has dissolved and liquidated due to lack of funds. They existed to represent the interests of all two wheel vehicle retailers, but in such a wide field there were conflicts of interest. That which concerned us was motorcycle and moped dealers regarding e-bikes as potential competition, leading to ETRA campaigning against any increase in power or assist speed for our e-bikes which they also nominally represented.

Hence my "good news" heading, this focus for opposition to BEBA support for such a change is removed. This won't make any immediate difference since the damage was done, but hopefully the future climate will be more favourable next time of trying.

 

[trex]

most manufacturers have de facto disregarded the ridiculous 250W limit on their top end bikes.
ETRA may be a warning for the e-bike trade in 2014.
The pedelecs database has 335 models, the overall market may have many more, possibly as many as 1,000 models competing for 30,000 annual sales. Would you buy a bike if the importer sells only 30 pieces of this model in a year?

 

[flecc]

That's only our UK market problem though Trex, in Europe the market for all those many models is huge, several hundred thousands even in the Netherlands with a third of our population.

ETA's problem was that it existed on a false basis, just having two wheels isn't an indication of common interests. A Segway and a supersport motorbike for example have absolutely nothing in common.

 

[trex]

I am puzzled by the low UK sales figure of 30,000 e-bikes annually - I see more and more e-bikes everyday over the last 3 years I've been riding one. It used to be one a day in 2011, now it's more like 3 a day.

 

[flecc]

Areas do vary greatly, they are still almost non-existent in my one. Also I'm sure that the figures quoted for many earlier years were overly optimistic since they were little more than guesses by those with an interest in exaggerating them.

In one year when the estimate was 20,000, a researched analysis by A to B magazine came up with 12,000.

 

[Hero Eco]

Hi Trex, numbers are actually closer to 20,000 based upon import statistics. We see a change in the value of the market. i.e. people are spending more on their bikes. We hope that we may see an increase this year and next with a few projects we are working on. More info soon...
Thanks
Mark

 

[flecc]

We see a change in the value of the market. i.e. people are spending more on their bikes.

Those who spend more on quality e-bikes are probably more likely to use them to the full, which could account for the greater incidence of seeing them that Trex reports.

Many of the low cost e-bikes that used to be a much larger part of the UK market were often little used and very often short lived.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Many of the low cost e-bikes that used to be a much larger part of the UK market were often little used and very often short lived.

our experience is also that these low cost eBikes are actually part of the reason for the low uptake of eBikes in the UK Market. They've actually damaged the customers and retailers perception of eBikes.

The UK Cycle Industry would be much more pro- eBike if they first experience of eBikes hadn't been so poor to start with.

We're now in a situation where a high % of eBikes are sold though specialist eBike retailers, this is always going to be a small industry.

If the market is to grow, the huge network of Cycle Shops need to start to sell eBikes and realise that there are quality brands available now that use quality components, so the bikes wont be in the store for work more than they are on the road.

We have countless stories of shops who won't touch eBikes because of their previous experience with sub £1000.00 rrp bikes and customers who expect them to work day in day out rain or shine with no up keep.

things do appear to be changing, but its not a fast process.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

sorry - should add, I'm not saying sub £1000.00 bikes now are rubbish.

what I was trying to say was that poor reliability and what were essentially poor quality bikes with an e added didn't fill the UK cycle industry with confidence.

 

[trex]

I think sub £1000 bikes are what's enlarged the market in recent years.
As I was listening to the LBS shop owner on the Radio 4 program, I came to the conclusion that for our market to expand, we need to have LBSs like him selling not 6 but 50-100 e-bikes a year. How? not many would want to buy £1,600 BionX kits nor £999 Powacycles but if he can charge £100 to fit a £500 ebike kits to his stock bikes then he may do it.
I know what some of you may want to say, £500 kits don't work. You can't buy a decent kit for that sort of money, retail. But most stock bikes in LBSs are not built to carry heavy e-kits. So heavy batteries and big motors are not suitable. When you look at low power kits (200W), there are quite a lot of possiblities out there. It only needs somebody with deep enough pockets to start the ball rolling.

 

[flecc]

I think sub £1000 bikes are what's enlarged the market in recent years.

The trend is the opposite Trex, and that's been true for years. As far back as 2002 the sales were predominantly of rock bottom "shopper" SLA e-bikes in the £300 to £400 bracket and the only higher price bike to make consistent but small sales was the £850 Giant Lafree Twist. In the UK the first popular e-bike to top £1000 (just) was the eZee Torq in 2006, but still only selling a little over 600 in that year out of the total market.

By the start of 2008 we had the much larger selling Kalkhoffs with all models at substantially over £1000 and since then numerous others have appeared in the higher price brackets. Over this six year period inflation was low, not in any way accounting for the differences, and inflation has remained very low since.

Conversely many of the lower price brands have been failing, once dominant Powabyke went bankrupt on their low cost models and have returned with higher price Xbikes and Powacycle have also found it necessary to move upmarket. Online cut-price model Mistral folded into AlienOcean. Halfords have tried breaking into the e-bike market with low price models but have conspicuously failed. Numerous other low price brands have disappeared too, more than I can remember, but not one higher price supplier has dropped out. A very few suppliers manage the odd model or two at less than four figures, but they don't dominate the market.

As KTM said above, the low cost rubbish e-bikes that were around did huge damage to the potential market for low cost e-bikes. As a result the area of current sales has long been a rather more selective market that accepts higher prices. In essence we only have a specialised e-bike market in the UK now, the low price possibility not being utilised to any extent.

I doubt cycle dealers supplying low price options like kit fitting will ever happen. It's important to note that the huge sales of e-bikes in their main European markets has been achieved with higher price models and not in any way with budget ones. This highlights the real basis of the UK problem, we are not a cycling country, and until we become one, e-bikes will never be a big success.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Flecc is correct, whilst you might perceive that the sub £1000 market might be growing, if you want to sell volume of eBikes in the UK, you have to sell though cycle shops, and these guys are suspicious of bikes that are cheaper than a decent road or mtb, and come with loads of wiring.

Most cycle shops are run by people who've come into the industry though it being their sport or hobby.

first hurdle is convincing them eBikes aren't just cheating.... then you have to convince them they are worth selling.

If eBikes and cycling more generally is to become more of an accepted part of society there need to be more shops and more in the industry who see bikes as a form of transport and not just a hobby or sport.

This is why we're behind Europe in number of people cycling, but if there is a race on bikes, we'll probably be winning it.

 

[trex]

I agree that for the market to grow, it's got to be taken up by the Cycle Shop network and the nework cannot be bothered with retailing £1,000 e-bikes. However, if you look at the bulk of their sub £400 mountain bikes, many can support light weight e-kits, sold as add-on to their customers aged between 50-75. The problem is the lack of the right products. E-bikes can't be a low cost transport option like bikes until the total cost of bike + kit is under £1000.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I agree that for the market to grow, it's got to be taken up by the Cycle Shop network and the nework cannot be bothered with retailing £1,000 e-bikes. However, if you look at the bulk of their sub £400 mountain bikes, many can support light weight e-kits, sold as add-on to their customers aged between 50-75. The problem is the lack of the right products.

the problem isn't a lack of the right products... if there was a market they would exist. They might already do, I'm no expert on bolt on kits.

Personally I'd not be overly keen on suggesting that any sub £500.00 mountain bike will have been designed with the additional speed and weight of a eKit being bolted on in mind - and having work in many shops and visiting hundreds more - many bike shop owners will / do have a similar attitude.

the problem is also there simply isnt a big number of people in the 50-75 category walking into bike shops wanting a sub £500.00 bike with a eKit bolting on.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Why is it different in China then? The most popular bike has SLA batteries and costs £160 in the supermarket. I wish you could get them here.

 

[trex]

Chinese consumers like low cost products.
Europeans won't put up with frequent maintenance, water ingress (in throttles), broken (frog) battery frame, crappy wiring, propstands falling off, dim lights, hard plastic grips, rubbish suspension etc.

E-bikes manufacturers in recent years concentrated on improving motor and battery performance whereas the key to a mass market is simplicity and robustness.

 

[flecc]

Why is it different in China then? The most popular bike has SLA batteries and costs £160 in the supermarket. I wish you could get them here.

We had similar in large numbers from 2002 onwards, albeit with lower power for the UK's legal position, and there's still one supplier of them, but after selling in thousands in 2002, '03, 04, they didn't last long and did more damage than good to the market as I remarked earlier. For that reason I'd hate to see their return.

 

[Jimod]

Why is it different in China then? The most popular bike has SLA batteries and costs £160 in the supermarket. I wish you could get them here.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't use or be seen on the things in that picture, even if you gave me £160. I'll bet I'm not alone in that.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

gotta agree with that... and also the above sentiment that, things like this are part of the reason eBikes in general have a very poor image in the UK.

 

[trex]

Why is it different in China then? The most popular bike has SLA batteries and costs £160 in the supermarket. I wish you could get them here.

is this the new 2014 Oxygen bike?