how much faster by eBike.....???

[Cyclezee]

I am good when it's warm and sunny, otherwise needing a fair amount of assistance.

in bed?

 

[peerjay56]

I am good when it's warm and sunny, otherwise needing a fair amount of assistance.

Reliable batteries are essential

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Hi KTM,

Sorry but I don't know your first name.

I had not read this post until it was alluded to in another thread earlier today.

I quite understand that the eZee Torq might not be everybody's cup of tea and is clearly not yours, although I wonder if you have ever ridden one?

From what you say, I assume that you know little about the eZee brand in general, but I can assure you that they last much longer than 10 minutes, in fact they have achieved some epic rides, across Australia, South Africa, China etc., covering thousands of miles in much harsher conditions than we have to cope with here in the UK.

I quite understand your bias in favour of KTM, that is your job.

Regards,

Hi ,

Sorry, I forget that our login isn't just for me. A few of us in this office post. I really should try to remember to get everyone to sign off the posts so people know who they are speaking to.

My name is Colin Williams and I own FLi.

D8veh, suggested that a bike would be much better for the commute than the one I'd used. I'm more than happy to admit there are probably loads that are better for the commute. Many of them made by KTM, but also many made by other brands. I'm most definitely not biased towards KTM. I sell them, but I can always appreciate that customers and me included in this might have needs that another brand might fulfill better.

All I was doing was replying to D8veh and try to explain why I personally wouldn't buy or ride a bike like the one he suggested.

I appreciate lots of people do, and i'm sure the bike is great for them, and as you've shown its capable of traveling long distances.

When I say it wouldn't last 10 minutes with me, and I'd not trust the components for my riding, I'm basing this on the way I ride and my experience. I dont need to have tried the bike to know this.

This is the type of riding I do:

On my commute home for instance there is a cattle grid that I hit at about 40 miles an hour, there is a small hump in the road before it and use this hump to give me enough lift to clear the cattle grid and hit the next section of road at full speed.

I've been racing mountain bikes for 20 years including 2 seasons of world cup downhill. So if I'm going to be riding any eBike I need to know that if I hit a pot hole at 50mph on a road downhill or have to brake sharply because a sheep jumps out etc etc.

These are the reasons I want top quality branded suspension fork, and high quality components because I know its what I need.

I'm not slagging off your brand, I'm just saying its not for me, and many like me, and for d8veh to assume its just because I'm a snob I find insulting, which is why I've picked holes in his suggestion.

there are many eBikes that I love the idea of that aren't KTM, so I'm not blinkered.

If the poster had suggested I try one of these, I'd have loved a good discussion about them.

http://enduro-mtb.com/en/haibike-xduro-fs-rx-pro/

or even

but had someone suggested an electric road race bike, which is actually what would be perfect for my commute, I'd have wanted disc brakes, tyres that aren't going to puncture every time, and I'd have expected any shop to upload of video of a bike thats actually set up properly. That video makes the bike look rubbish.

Anyway I'm waffling now, so I'll leave it that. I hope you can see why the bike suggested isn't for me, and that I'm not being harsh or snobish, I'm just justifying my reasons, so that d8veh can see its not just "because its not a KTM"

If you need me to clear anything else up please don't hesitate to let me know.

I set this thread up to show people the actually impact riding an eBike can have for a certain type of cyclist, so I hope we can get back to discussing that, because it was never about the brand of bike really.

Regards
Col

 

[RobF]

Hi,

Sorry, I forget that our login isn't just for me. A few of us in this office post. I really should try to remember to get everyone to sign off the posts so people know who they are speaking to.

My name is Colin Williams and I own FLi.

D8veh, suggested that a bike would be much better for the commute than the one I'd used. I'm more than happy to admit there are probably loads that are better for the commute. Many of them made by KTM, but also many made by other brands. I'm most definitely not biased towards KTM. I sell them, but I can always appreciate that customers and me included in this might have needs that another brand might fulfill better.

All I was doing was replying to D8veh and try to explain why I personally wouldn't buy or ride a bike like the one he suggested.

I appreciate lots of people do, and i'm sure the bike is great for them, and as you've shown its capable of traveling long distances.

When I say it wouldn't last 10 minutes with me, and I'd not trust the components for my riding, I'm basing this on the way I ride and my experience. I dont need to have tried the bike to know this.

This is the type of riding I do:

On my commute home for instance there is a cattle grid that I hit at about 40 miles an hour, there is a small hump in the road before it and use this hump to give me enough lift to clear the cattle grid and hit the next section of road at full speed.

I've been racing mountain bikes for 20 years including 2 seasons of world cup downhill. So if I'm going to be riding any eBike I need to know that if I hit a pot hole at 50mph on a road downhill or have to brake sharply because a sheep jumps out etc etc.

These are the reasons I want top quality branded suspension fork, and high quality components because I know its what I need.

I'm not slagging off your brand, I'm just saying its not for me, and many like me, and for d8veh to assume its just because I'm a snob I find insulting, which is why I've picked holes in his suggestion.

there are many eBikes that I love the idea of that aren't KTM, so I'm not blinkered.

If the poster had suggested I try one of these, I'd have loved a good discussion about them.

http://enduro-mtb.com/en/haibike-xduro-fs-rx-pro/

or even

but had someone suggested an electric road race bike, which is actually what would be perfect for my commute, I'd have wanted disc brakes, tyres that aren't going to puncture every time, and I'd have expected any shop to upload of video of a bike thats actually set up properly. That video makes the bike look rubbish.

Anyway I'm waffling now, so I'll leave it that. I hope you can see why the bike suggested isn't for me, and that I'm not being harsh or snobish, I'm just justifying my reasons, so that d8veh can see its not just "because its not a KTM"

If you need me to clear anything else up please don't hesitate to let me know.

I set this thread up to show people the actually impact riding an eBike can have for a certain type of cyclist, so I hope we can get back to discussing that, because it was never about the brand of bike really.

Regards
Col

Bunny hopping cattlegrids?

Good stuff.

I often get off and push, particularly on the Brommie with its little wheels.

On a more serious note, I do not like the way posters on here are almost forced into apologising for liking good quality equipment.

The suggestion one has to be snob to like a nice bike is moronic.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

...... and for d8veh to assume its just because I'm a snob I find insulting, which is why I've picked holes in his suggestion.

I didn't assume that you're a snob and it's completely wrong of you to say that I did. You need to retract that statement. It was you that suggested that you might be, so I gave you a toungue-in-cheek method for you to self-determine whether you are.

I might be a snob

 

[shemozzle999]

From a physics point of view the stored energy of the battery would only help your type of riding if applied on only uphill stretches, the extra weight of the ebike components would help on the downhill but would be negated by the flat sections.

 

[flecc]

the extra weight of the ebike components would help on the downhill but would be negated by the flat sections.

You're the second to have posted as such in the last couple of days, Galileo would be wondering why he bothered to climb the Pisa tower!

Acceleration due to gravity is irrespective of weight.

The only theoretical gain would be in overcoming friction (negligible) and rolling resistance (low). Since the additional weight as a proportion of the total weight of bike and rider is very small and acting on such limited gain factors, the total gain is below anything that can be observed by a rider.

 

[shemozzle999]

Since the additional weight as a proportion of the total weight of bike and rider is very small and acting on such limited gain factors, the total gain is below anything that can be observed by a rider.

A phyical again of potential energy at the top of the hill due to increase weight is still a again no matter how small if my understanding of physics has not left me.

 

[RobF]

is still a again no matter how small if my understanding of physics has not left me.

No, but there is a danger your common sense has left you.

As flecc says, any gain is so small as to be irrelevant.

 

[flecc]

Yes, as I said, a theoretical gain. My point is that it's not worth mentioning if a rider cannot observe it.

N.B. Crossed with Rob's post.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I might be a snob

You're the second to have posted as such in the last couple of days, Galileo would be wondering why he bothered to climb the Pisa tower!

Acceleration due to gravity is irrespective of weight.

The only theoretical gain would be in overcoming friction (negligible) and rolling resistance (low). Since the additional weight as a proportion of the total weight of bike and rider is very small and acting on such limited gain factors, the total gain is below anything that can be observed by a rider.

I don't believe that's right , Flecc. It would be correct in a vacuum. Gravity accelerates you down the hill until you reach your terminal velocity, at which point your weight component is equal to the air resistance plus the much smaller rolling resisistance. So, if you have two riders of different weight rolling down a hill from a stand-still, they will initially accelerate the same, but quite quickly the net force down the hill (weight component minus air resisistance) will be larger for the heavier rider, so he'll accelerate away from the lighter one and reach a higher terminal speed.

It's the same thing with a feather and a feather cast in lead. When dropped off the the leaning tower of Pisa, the lead feather will reach the ground a long time before the feather one.

You can find a good explanation of the physics here:
http://penultimates.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/the-physics-of-cycling-ii-or-why-i-am.html

 

[RobF]

Yes, as I said, a theoretical gain. My point is that it's not worth mentioning if a rider cannot observe it.

N.B. Crossed with Rob's post.

Needless to say I agree.

I respect anyone who can understand the physics, but that knowledge is useless unless it is properly applied.

 

[trex]

flecc is correct. The potential energy is proportional to weight, accecelation is inversely proportional to weight. E-kit weight has no effect on consumption on a round trip.

 

[flecc]

I don't believe that's right , Flecc. It would be correct in a vacuum. Gravity accelerates you down the hill until you reach your terminal velocity, at which point your weight component is equal to the air resistance plus the much smaller rolling resisistance. So, if you have two riders of different weight rolling down a hill from a stand-still, they will initially accelerate the same, but quite quickly the net force down the hill (weight component minus air resisistance) will be larger for the heavier rider, so he'll accelerate away from the lighter one and reach a higher terminal speed.

It's the same thing with a feather and a feather cast in lead. When dropped off the the leaning tower of Pisa, the lead feather will reach the ground a long time before the feather one.

I have factored for the reality. We are not speaking of rider weight differences which can be very large, up to 50 or more kilos, this is about the gain in weight of the e-bike components as a proportion of total bike and rider weight, which is very small.

For that the practical gain is negligible.

 

[shemozzle999]

My money would be placed on the bigger guy every time

 

[shemozzle999]

I suppose I should have stated my assumptions:

The rider being fairly fit for road racing would be more than capable to provide enough energy to exceed assisted speed on the flat and down hill stretches.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you look at the graph in the link above, a 10% difference in weight makes a significant difference in terminal rolling speed. It looks like about 5 mph down a 5% hill and maybe 10mph down a 10% hill.

 

[flecc]

My money would be placed on the bigger guy every time

I agree, but that's not the subject, it was about the downhill effect of weight gain of e-bike components, something I've looked into previously in depth.

Across a range of riders, bikes and e-bike weight additions, the median e-bike weight gain is circa 6%. However the weight gain brings increases in rolling resistance and friction, so rounding down the weight gain advantage to 5% is justified.

Now look at that in practical circumstances. Can a rider perceive a 5% speed difference between 15 mph and 15.75 mph? Can a rider perceive a gradient difference between 12% and 12.6%? The answers of course are no, and the same goes for that theoretical downhill speed gain from a 5% weight increase. It's so slight a rider will not perceive a gain at the time of riding first his bike down a given hill without e-bike kit and later with e-bike kit.

 

[flecc]

If you look at the graph in the link above, a 10% difference in weight makes a significant difference in terminal rolling speed. It looks like about 5 mph down a 5% hill and maybe 10mph down a 10% hill.

I understand that well Dave, but as I've posted above to Shemozzle, the weight gain is much smaller and in practical circumstances will not be perceived. That's why I think it not worth mentioning as a noticeable gain.

Of course if we compare it to the gains of streamlined helmets, all-over skin tight lycra, slippery paint finishes and oval spokes it's real enough.

 

[shemozzle999]

Don't forget to mention the performance enhancing drugs.