if those statistics are really real and accurate then it's really bad how lazy we are comparing to Germans or Dutch cyclists.
Availability of electric bike parts in the UK
- Thread starter danielrlee
- Start date
I think they are true, and the roads bear witness. Every year around 2 million bicycles are sold in the UK, so given that they easily last at least ten years and often many decades more, at least every third person of any age in the UK should be seen on bikes!
1 in 3 on bikes? Even 1 in 300 would be a surprise.
I don't think laziness alone is to blame for the poor rate of use. People like the idea of cycling, hence the purchasing. However, the reality of cycling in Britain at the moment soon deters them from frequent use, resulting in bikes being used only for high days and holidays (probably on trails like the Tissington or Camel) or worse still, not being used again.
It's a great shame.
Sorry for he radio silence since yesterday. I started this thread on the train on the way down to Wiltshire and haven't had much opportunity to keep up with it.
I'm actually 33, so I've got plenty of years left to make and lose my millions. I'm starting to think that the electric bike business (in the UK at least) might not be the way to do it.
Trex wrote something in the last post that, at first, I thought pretty much sums up the situation - we just don't cycle much in the UK. The thing is, I don't view my e-bike as a replacement for a regular bicycle. I view it as an alternative to my car. I just wonder if the average Joe thought the same, the potential customer base would be exponentially larger.
I'm actually 33, so I've got plenty of years left to make and lose my millions. I'm starting to think that the electric bike business (in the UK at least) might not be the way to do it.
Trex wrote something in the last post that, at first, I thought pretty much sums up the situation - we just don't cycle much in the UK. The thing is, I don't view my e-bike as a replacement for a regular bicycle. I view it as an alternative to my car. I just wonder if the average Joe thought the same, the potential customer base would be exponentially larger.
Our infrastructure only favours recreational cycling, not going to work.
For bikes to be an alternative to cars, we need large scale provision of secure bike routes in towns and cities. Our goverment won't do it.
Few people would choose e-bike for sport, even if more do, the practice of recreational e-biking is limited by weather condition. We only have 6 months in a year when it's agreable to do this.
Another issue is cost per use.
In London, when Boris bikes rental went from £1 to £2, renters buy their own bikes. This means that the perceived value is £2 per use. Senior citizens like myself may be willing to pay £3 per use but no more than that. If you build your own bike like I do then £2 per use is easily achievable but few e-bikes in the shops can deliver that sort of VFM.
For bikes to be an alternative to cars, we need large scale provision of secure bike routes in towns and cities. Our goverment won't do it.
Few people would choose e-bike for sport, even if more do, the practice of recreational e-biking is limited by weather condition. We only have 6 months in a year when it's agreable to do this.
Another issue is cost per use.
In London, when Boris bikes rental went from £1 to £2, renters buy their own bikes. This means that the perceived value is £2 per use. Senior citizens like myself may be willing to pay £3 per use but no more than that. If you build your own bike like I do then £2 per use is easily achievable but few e-bikes in the shops can deliver that sort of VFM.
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I considered posting this under a new thread, but I think maybe it fits the original title of this thread quite well.
Earlier on I posted the difficulty I had found in trying to source a 48v 20ah lithium battery from the UK at anywhere near the cost from China, even allowing for the import duty and vat.
The benchmark was the BMS 48v 20ah with charger at £225 plus £60 postage plus £17 duty plus £62 vat, giving a total landed value in the uk of around £364.
Searching under electric cycle suppliers I couldn't see anything from a UKseller anywhere near that price.
Searching under electric scooters though, I found this one with charger, delivered from the UK, for £446. It doesn't say whether it's Lithium ion or Lipo, but it does show an "output" of 20 amps (960 watts). The UK based seller has 98.9% potive feedback on over 25.000 transactions, since 2003.
I'd be interested to know people's thoughts of that battery and charger, and the UK price.....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390690127796?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Earlier on I posted the difficulty I had found in trying to source a 48v 20ah lithium battery from the UK at anywhere near the cost from China, even allowing for the import duty and vat.
The benchmark was the BMS 48v 20ah with charger at £225 plus £60 postage plus £17 duty plus £62 vat, giving a total landed value in the uk of around £364.
Searching under electric cycle suppliers I couldn't see anything from a UKseller anywhere near that price.
Searching under electric scooters though, I found this one with charger, delivered from the UK, for £446. It doesn't say whether it's Lithium ion or Lipo, but it does show an "output" of 20 amps (960 watts). The UK based seller has 98.9% potive feedback on over 25.000 transactions, since 2003.
I'd be interested to know people's thoughts of that battery and charger, and the UK price.....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390690127796?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
£80 more, and uncertainty about its exact makeup, although you could ask the question - be interesting to see if the seller knows the answer. Give them a call.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
58.4v charging is for 16S LiFePO4 at the normal 3.65v per cell. A Li-ion one would be 13S at 4.2v per cell = 54.6v. Therefore it's LiFePO4 unless he's got the wrong charger.
Check the weight because a LiFePO4 that size can be very heavy.
Check the weight because a LiFePO4 that size can be very heavy.
As Phil suggested, I've messaged them and asked the cell type and the weight.
They have their own ecommerce website too, which has that battery and a 36v version. The 48v is exactly the same price as on ebay though, strange they don't give a reduction for not having to pay the ebay seller's fee.
They have their own ecommerce website too, which has that battery and a 36v version. The 48v is exactly the same price as on ebay though, strange they don't give a reduction for not having to pay the ebay seller's fee.
I'm a lipo guy, so for me, very little else matches VFM of UK dispatched Hobbyking packs (and for the record, I've never had any problems with HK packs). I'd be interested in the general consensus of this pack though, since is much more suitable for the general public.
The issue here is that "average Joe" isn't going to be on this forum to ask. We are all converts and can see the advantage or ease of use that a pedal assist bike has to offer.
It always fascinates me the way that the general conversation goes with a non e-bike owning person.
AJ..Is that an electric bike?
Me.. Yes
AJ.. Isn't that cheating?
Me.. Why?
AJ.. Well you aren't doing the work and getting the exercise.
Me..Do you own a bike?
AJ.. Yes..
Me.. When did you last use it?
AJ.. Ah, it's had a puncture for ages and I just haven't got around to repairing it.
ME.. So what you are actually saying is that you own a bike, found it hard work and shoved it at the back of the garage years ago. Where as I'm out on my electric bike as much as possible, getting both enjoyment and exercise?
AJ.. It's still cheating though.
You just can't win!
I personally think that the e-bike market is going to go on leaps and bounds over the next ten years or so, as hopefully battery technology moves forward, and people start to realise that owning and riding an e-bike isn't a cheat, but is a way to get out and about as an alternative and fun way. Sadly us Brits never seem to be as open minded and sensible in this respect. Racing bikes being a prime example. The rest of Europe ride around on practical if not ugly bikes with raised bars and comfy saddles, whilst we ride around using wrist breaking drops with a plank to sit on. It's just the British way
For the foreseeable future at least, being a retailer in the e-bike market must be more about passion for the product and possibly a lifestyle choice, rather than just being in it soley to make money.
Eddie, your post had me smiling all the way through. My standard response at that point is "Cheating?... But I'm commuting, not competing. If you don't want to get to your destination in less time, at a fraction of the cost [of a car or public transport] and with so much more fun, you're the only one getting cheated." To date, nobody has had a meaningful response.The issue here is that "average Joe" isn't going to be on this forum to ask. We are all converts and can see the advantage or ease of use that a pedal assist bike has to offer.
It always fascinates me the way that the general conversation goes with a non e-bike owning person.
AJ..Is that an electric bike?
Me.. Yes
AJ.. Isn't that cheating?
Me.. Why?
AJ.. Well you aren't doing the work and getting the exercise.
Me..Do you own a bike?
AJ.. Yes..
Me.. When did you last use it?
AJ.. Ah, it's had a puncture for ages and I just haven't got around to repairing it.
ME.. So what you are actually saying is that you own a bike, found it hard work and shoved it at the back of the garage years ago. Where as I'm out on my electric bike as much as possible, getting both enjoyment and exercise?
AJ.. It's still cheating though.
You just can't win!
I personally think that the e-bike market is going to go on leaps and bounds over the next ten years or so, as hopefully battery technology moves forward, and people start to realise that owning and riding an e-bike isn't a cheat, but is a way to get out and about as an alternative and fun way. Sadly us Brits never seem to be as open minded and sensible in this respect. Racing bikes being a prime example. The rest of Europe ride around on practical if not ugly bikes with raised bars and comfy saddles, whilst we ride around using wrist breaking drops with a plank to sit on. It's just the British way
For the foreseeable future at least, being a retailer in the e-bike market must be more about passion for the product and possibly a lifestyle choice, rather than just being in it soley to make money.
Dear danielrlee,
your intial observation is entirly correcy, the UK market is too small to allow any user/dealer/wholesaler any control on the supply chain, and therefore traceability.
Not enough people care about bicycles (think horsemeat in burgers.)
Until the UK market significantly improves, EU quality standards simply shall not apply, as we the consumers aren't prepared to finance the deal.
As the majority of consumsers are in BRICK or MINT countries where the standard of living is so poor that yes, bicycles are more popular, but they don't have the way with all to spend money forcing companies to have good quality or wellfare standards. Just an observation...you get what you pay for.
your intial observation is entirly correcy, the UK market is too small to allow any user/dealer/wholesaler any control on the supply chain, and therefore traceability.
Not enough people care about bicycles (think horsemeat in burgers.)
Until the UK market significantly improves, EU quality standards simply shall not apply, as we the consumers aren't prepared to finance the deal.
As the majority of consumsers are in BRICK or MINT countries where the standard of living is so poor that yes, bicycles are more popular, but they don't have the way with all to spend money forcing companies to have good quality or wellfare standards. Just an observation...you get what you pay for.
You're not "getting it".
In the UK we have absolutely no economy of scale with regards to buying power in terms of bicycles at best, electric ones as an extreme example. We can't even get a decent UK dealership network as Joe Blogs in the UK hasn't adopted electric bikes. Youir message is, erm, how to be honest, it's like going into Poundland and saying you'd like it for 50p.
Yup, we are stuck with unlegislated, un warrantied parts which we have to finance ourselves and take the risk ourselves, mostly cos we're not "cool" enough and ther isn't enough margin for dealers to pay their rent. Unless we buy German, which is part of the EU..oh dear, controversial!
Rx
In the UK we have absolutely no economy of scale with regards to buying power in terms of bicycles at best, electric ones as an extreme example. We can't even get a decent UK dealership network as Joe Blogs in the UK hasn't adopted electric bikes. Youir message is, erm, how to be honest, it's like going into Poundland and saying you'd like it for 50p.
Yup, we are stuck with unlegislated, un warrantied parts which we have to finance ourselves and take the risk ourselves, mostly cos we're not "cool" enough and ther isn't enough margin for dealers to pay their rent. Unless we buy German, which is part of the EU..oh dear, controversial!
Rx
I think you raise some really good points. In the UK, for commuting purposes the bicycle is seen by the massive majority as a 'poor mans car'. What makes me laugh though is that a large proportion are happy to ride on hugely congested public transport systems in worse conditions than is allowed for cattle.
Couldn't agree more...bicycles are freedom, independance, and health and well being. More people riding can't be bad. But, at some level, it is about managing expectation...cheap stuff from the third world (or whatever terminolgy we're calling it today) simply hasn't been lab/wind tunnel/road/customer tested. Sometimes that's what we pay for - surity and traceability. I don't think any small children breathed horrible fumes from making a Kalkhoff. (Erm..as I don't work for the company I could be completely wrong here...but you get the idea, little kids aren't scavaging on toxic dumps to make this product...I hope! And equally, it performs to our expectations, whatever they are, and I'm dead weary of them being dictated by marketing departments, I'd happy suffer techy blokes any time
The issue here is that "average Joe" isn't going to be on this forum to ask. We are all converts and can see the advantage or ease of use that a pedal assist bike has to offer.
It always fascinates me the way that the general conversation goes with a non e-bike owning person.
AJ..Is that an electric bike?
Me.. Yes
AJ.. Isn't that cheating?
Me.. Why?
AJ.. Well you aren't doing the work and getting the exercise.
Me..Do you own a bike?
AJ.. Yes..
Me.. When did you last use it?
AJ.. Ah, it's had a puncture for ages and I just haven't got around to repairing it.
ME.. So what you are actually saying is that you own a bike, found it hard work and shoved it at the back of the garage years ago. Where as I'm out on my electric bike as much as possible, getting both enjoyment and exercise?
AJ.. It's still cheating though.
You just can't win!
I personally think that the e-bike market is going to go on leaps and bounds over the next ten years or so, as hopefully battery technology moves forward, and people start to realise that owning and riding an e-bike isn't a cheat, but is a way to get out and about as an alternative and fun way. Sadly us Brits never seem to be as open minded and sensible in this respect. Racing bikes being a prime example. The rest of Europe ride around on practical if not ugly bikes with raised bars and comfy saddles, whilst we ride around using wrist breaking drops with a plank to sit on. It's just the British way
For the foreseeable future at least, being a retailer in the e-bike market must be more about passion for the product and possibly a lifestyle choice, rather than just being in it soley to make money.
I'm on a catch 22 with this one.
The horrible road I ride is well worn by super quick racers in lycra. Therefore they have paved my path. Car drivers are at least aware of the possibilty of cyclists if not very sympathetic. I got a toot and a wave today, from 2 young 20 year olds in a Merc (can't imagine they're local unless they're drug dealers) at the back of a (whole 4 car queue) as I made hard work of a hill, but I assume they saluted me pulling in to let the cars past - I can't imagine they fancied me, I'm a cougar with a puce face and a fat arse!
I reckon I still hold the moral high ground...at least I'm not damaging the roads as much as their car is! Eddie, i'm afraid I still feel as though I'm cheating, those lycra clad guys don't want to make friends with me any time soon, and the car drivers aren't really convinced either,
Rx
The horrible road I ride is well worn by super quick racers in lycra. Therefore they have paved my path. Car drivers are at least aware of the possibilty of cyclists if not very sympathetic. I got a toot and a wave today, from 2 young 20 year olds in a Merc (can't imagine they're local unless they're drug dealers) at the back of a (whole 4 car queue) as I made hard work of a hill, but I assume they saluted me pulling in to let the cars past - I can't imagine they fancied me, I'm a cougar with a puce face and a fat arse!
I reckon I still hold the moral high ground...at least I'm not damaging the roads as much as their car is! Eddie, i'm afraid I still feel as though I'm cheating, those lycra clad guys don't want to make friends with me any time soon, and the car drivers aren't really convinced either,
Rx
I'm another newbie, have to say that i'm a little surprised about comments re the source of ones bike, mine was made in Taiwan does that make me a second class pedelec owner I did not expect to find snobbery on this excellent website or comments against other cyclist pedal or electric powered.I have returned to cycling for pleasure, and to try to restore fitness using my electric assist bike, but I also remember the days when I raced on a bike, and wish all cyclist enjoyment from their bikes, mike.
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