Time to buy a new e-bike

CorpusLuteum

Pedelecer
Mar 9, 2014
124
76
After weighing all the different options, I've decided to buy the Agattu i8, mainly because as d8veh mentioned, step through bikes are less likely to be stolen. And I also think trex is right. My plan might not work and the trip might be too tiring. If that's the case then I think a Kalkhoff bike would have a better resale value.

Now I just have to wait for my Brompton to sell... I have a feeling this is going to be a long wait.
 

peerjay56

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 24, 2013
745
201
Nr Ingleton, N. Yorkshire
Really? Would you rather recover £1000 (optimistic! ) from a £1500 spend, or £400 from a £700 spend? I think you'd made your mind up before you asked the question. Which is your perogative, of course.
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,249
3,197
Firstly, you need to consider if you can do 5 consecutive 24 mile commutes week after week in all weather conditions. It can be a trying and miserable experience on a bike. I am pretty fit and regularly run 6 miles 3 x a week, swim and do a few triathlons. After 5 consecutive commutes (20 miles each) on my Kalkhoff, I don't want to cycle again for a few days. This is because I've spent more time than I'd like on a bike (boredom), or I've been soaked every day. And, you can become tired even though the bike assists. Consider these things before deciding to comit to biking long term and spending a lot of money.

I've had a Kalkhoff with a Panasonic crank drive and an 8 speed Shimano hub gear for the past 6 years and it's been virtually faultless considering the use it has had. It's done a lot of miles (17500 ish) and I think it's had two new sets of sprockets, two new chains and numerous brake pads which is a remarkably low level of maintenance.

I know that Kalkhoff no longer use the Panasonic motor (a shame in my opinion) and use their own Impulse drive (again a crank motor). I have no idea what the Impulse system is like to ride or how durable it is, but my experience of Kalkhoff products is one of quality and reliability. I would hope this has been carried through to to the Impulse system.

Another thing to consider is that hub motors tend to have wires running all over the frame joined with kettle plugs and multi-pin connectors, all of which are susceptible to water ingress. With the Panasonic and Impulse motor crank drive, battery and motor are virtually all one and everything is sealed. Mine has been virtually submerged several times without a problem and I think that flecc actually did submerge his.

The Panasonic battery is good. 17500 miles, six years old and still ok for 26 to 30 miles per charge. I'd hope that in the last 6 years, Kalkhoff have improved this with their Impulse battery.

Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres will give you high puncture resistance. I've never had a puncture.

You will need to learn how to clean and lubricate the drive (chain and sprockets) and maybe change brake pads. Magura hydraulic brakes make the latter easier. Having a bike shop do these tasks isn't cost effective.

My original Kalkhoff's motor has failed now. I paid (£1500 retail) for the bike less cycle scheme, so it came to about £1100 and I've probably spent £200 on it. £1300 for 17500 miles will do for me. Whilst I've been on this forum, I've witnessed several people purchase cheap junk in the belief that they are saving money only to end up replacing the bike at a total cost equivelant to something like a Kalkhoff. Then, they are still left with junk. Also, price tag is no indication of quality.

What I think is absolutely essential for you to do is (1) decide if you can cope with that daily commute and (2) visit 50 Cycles if you decide that you can, AND that you want to buy a Kalkhoff.
 
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Another thing to consider is that hub motors tend to have wires running all over the frame joined with kettle plugs and multi-pin connectors, all of which are susceptible to water ingress.
Don't forget that Kalkhoff also make bikes with hub-motors.

I think that you need to go and look at today's hub-motored bikes in a shop. I don't think you'll see that sort of thing anymore.
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,249
3,197
But there has to be more cable and plugs involved with a hub motor. Its inevitable. Each connection is an opportunity for a problem to occur and problems do occur, I've read about them. The Panasonic crank drives with closely coupled batteries, in my experience, are less problematic.

Personally, I'd steer clear of hub motors, especially for the OP's requirements.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
I don't think one system is more reliable than the other. The weaknesses of hub motors are obvious: broken cable where the cable exits the motor shaft, broken gear wheels, stuck clutch, gear noise. The weaknesses of crank motors are also obvious: sprag clutch, bottom bracket bearings, worn sprockets, chain stretch, derailleur noise or limitation on power if hub gear is used. Both systems are expensive to repair outside warranty period, crank motors more so.
Bikes are notoriously less reliable than cars. You can shell out £2000 on a second hand car and don't expect to pay garage bills for may be 20,000 miles until the next MOT. You buy a brand new £2000 bike, you would be lucky if you don't have to take it to the bike shop in the first 6 months. The quality of the bike has more to do with how tight the mechanical components are bolted together.
Don't forget, maintenance is expensive if you can't look after the bike yourself.
 
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Deleted member 4366

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But there has to be more cable and plugs involved with a hub motor. Its inevitable. Each connection is an opportunity for a problem to occur and problems do occur, I've read about them. The Panasonic crank drives with closely coupled batteries, in my experience, are less problematic.
i don't believe that that's true on a a properly engineered bike. Whether the bike has a crank motor or hub motor, the components are exactly the same: torque/speed sensor; controller; motor; user interface/diisplay; battery. They both therefore need the same number of connections. It's just a matter of how well they're protected. Take a look at Annad bikes, They have hub motors. The sensor and controller is in the motor and the battery in the frame. Not a connector in sight.

Although I disagree with you on this matter, I do agree that a 26v Panasonic bike would be perfect for OP. It's a shame she didn't decide on this a couple of months ago when Spencer Ivy were offering their old bikes for £900. It might still be worth a call in case they have one left.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/4-spencer-ivy-spencers-at-a-very-special-price.16689/#post-205065
 

Alan Quay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 4, 2012
2,351
1,076
Devon
Don't forget, maintenance is expensive if you can't look after the bike yourself.
Spot on. If you are planning on riding a bike 500 miles a month you really need to be able to maintain it yourself. The basics don't require many tools, and are pretty easy to pick up.

Basic tool kit that I carry everywhere:
Pump
Tyre levers
Puncture repair kit
6" adjustable spanner
Spoke spanner
Leatherman multitool
Roll of insulation tape
Allen keys
Bottle of chain lube

With those tools you can do most of the day to day jobs like adjusting gears and brakes, changing pads, fixing flats, changing cables, lube etc.
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Without being unkind to the OP, I'm bound to say I agree with Tillson's view on the intended commute. To routinely undertake a 12 mile trip each way is a big ask and can hardly be considered leisure cycling.

Both rider and machine need to be in pretty good shape to manage such a journey on a regular basis without losing heart and just giving up. I know lots of people commute that kind of distance on bikes but many use it as part of a training regime and only the hardiest souls do it in all weathers, all year round.

From my own experience, the first thing I would want if my mind were made up on this course of action, is a pair of the most puncture-resistant tyres I could find for obvious reasons. Recently, I swapped a set of brand new Continentals for MPs for that very reason. Fixing my first puncture out in the sticks in crappy weather was extremely difficult and even with MPs, I now carry two tubes as I shan't bother attempting patching again except at home.

Beyond that, I wouldn't be too concerned about whether the bike was hub or crank driven although my own preference is the latter. Of two hub-drives and one crank-drive that I use, the hub-drives provide a sportier ride but the crank-drive is more comfortable and a nice leisure bike with its Nexus gears.

A battery sufficiently powerful to ensure the commute is achievable is another must have and I'd recommend a visit to a multi-franchise dealership which might allow the merits or otherwise of FWD, RWD and crank power to be compared. I really don't believe it's necessary to pay thousands for a bike up to the task but I'd hesitate to recommend something from the bargain basement unless the component parts are of adequate quality for sustained, trouble-free commuting.

D8veh's suggestion has merit but equally, there are some good, solid bikes with great warranty available from some of the merchants whose names occur in these pages which wouldn't break the bank yet could cope with the planned commute. One thing for sure is; a good fit is most important for commuting long distance and that's something only a decent test-ride can provide. Rather than have to contort oneself to manage the bike, it's nice if there is a range of adjustments to suit all body types.

Tom
 

Alan Quay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 4, 2012
2,351
1,076
Devon
CL,

With regard to maintenance, I did a quick Google to see if there was a half decent book on the market.

Made me chuckle when I found "Zinn and the art of mountain bike maintenance", but as far as I can tell it's a very well regarded book.

At c. £15 I would think it'd pay for itself the first time you use it.
 
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CorpusLuteum

Pedelecer
Mar 9, 2014
124
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CL,

With regard to maintenance, I did a quick Google to see if there was a half decent book on the market.

Made me chuckle when I found "Zinn and the art of mountain bike maintenance", but as far as I can tell it's a very well regarded book.

At c. £15 I would think it'd pay for itself the first time you use it.
Ohh thank you so much :) I think I might have messed up the chain on my current bike since I haven't cleaned it or greased it in 2 months... But yes I should probably invest in some maintenance skills.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
you can't damage a chain after 2 months by doing nothing. It may need small adjustments. If the gears don't shift smoothly, then adjust the gear cable.
Alternatively, stop at a local bike shop and ask them to take a look, it only takes a mechanic a couple of minutes to do this and watch him do it.
 
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CorpusLuteum

Pedelecer
Mar 9, 2014
124
76
you can't damage a chain after 2 months by doing nothing. It may need small adjustments. If the gears don't shift smoothly, then adjust the gear cable.
Alternatively, stop at a local bike shop and ask them to take a look, it only takes a mechanic a couple of minutes to do this and watch him do it.
Thank you trex, much appreciated :)
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,311
Thank you trex, much appreciated :)
The Sahel you are now thinking of has a hub gear, which is good.

Less to get dirty - there's only one exposed cog at the back.

More importantly for a small wheeled bike, the chain runs higher than a derailleur, so it get much less dirty.

Less maintenance on a hub gear.

To index the changes Shimano use a simple 'line up two yellow dots' design which even a novice could master.
 
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CorpusLuteum

Pedelecer
Mar 9, 2014
124
76
The Sahel you are now thinking of has a hub gear, which is good.

Less to get dirty - there's only one exposed cog at the back.

More importantly for a small wheeled bike, the chain runs higher than a derailleur, so it get much less dirty.

Less maintenance on a hub gear.

To index the changes Shimano use a simple 'line up two yellow dots' design which even a novice could master.
RobF you have convinced me. I'm going to go for the sahel compact. Thank you so much for your recommendation. A big thank you to everyone else as well for taking the time to advise me. I'll hopefully test ride the bike in a couple of weeks and then make the purchase.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
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RobF you have convinced me. I'm going to go for the sahel compact. Thank you so much for your recommendation. A big thank you to everyone else as well for taking the time to advise me. I'll hopefully test ride the bike in a couple of weeks and then make the purchase.
Make sure you have a go on one.

I expect you will like it, but it may just not suit you for some reason.

A test ride is doubly important for you because I don't think you've tried a crank drive before.

I like them, but they are a bit different to a hub drive and not to everyone's taste.
 
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