Which is the best Bosch/Yamaha/Shimano

[Foxtrot]

Well simple question which mid motor is better. Bosch,Yamaha or Shimano. (mid drive of course) Does anyone own a bike driven by one of these motors who would like to share their experience.

I also want to have the bike de-restrictred. I know that there is a performance kit available for the Bosch but can we say the same for the others. However that brings us to another problem the only supplier of the Bosch dongle as far as I can tell is the e-bikeshop.co.uk. However they say on their site that they would only supply it if you bought the bike from them and as they seem one of the more expensive retailers. I would want to avoid them if possible

Finally has anyone ever come across or has bought a bike from Europe. The exchange rate is quite favorable at the moment and I found an on line retailer called Bikes24. They are hundreds of pounds cheaper than over here. So what should I do. Would appreciate anyone who has bought a bike from them or any other overseas seller to share their experiences.

Thanks

Foxtrot

 

[JohnCade]

As regards buying from mainland Europe there have been a few threads on the subject recently and a search will turn them up. Warranties will be the main issue as e bikes are classed as push bikes and the warranty will be with the dealer you bought it from. So potentially you might have to send it back to where it came from for repair.

Comparing motors is a matter of opinion but they all have very similar power and torque - although the Shimano Steps may not be all that powerful from what I’ve read. The Yamaha gives the option of using a front mech with some set ups and by using normal sized chainrings avoids the small Bosch version with its potential for premature wear. Parts availability and prices are a consideration too.

 

[Wander]

You say you want to avoid e-bikeshop.co.uk because they are 'expensive'. I've looked at their site (& indeed my bike came from them!) & they only sell at UK RRPs.

Looking at your other thread:-

• Your budget is £1,800 - £2,200.
• You want a dongle (presumably within that price?).
• You've already taken advantage of a Scott dealer & test rode there & are now looking for a cheap import.
• You want 0% finance over 3 years.
• You think that batteries are a fortune at £500.

You do realise that if a dealer gave you all you want they would probably lose money don't you? Rather than you avoiding certain dealers I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to avoid you!

Take heed of what JohnCade says. Buy from a proper bike shop with UK back up, where you get proper support & a warranty that you can actually take advantage of and spares when you need them. Unless of course you can speak German well enough & don't mind shipping your bike back there & losing use of it for several weeks whilst any problems are sorted out. That's of course if they are interested in helping you out at all after the initial sale.

Oh & if you want to compare Bosch, Shimano & Yamahas. Why not read Martin's blog article here & his post here. Then try to see if the Germans will give you the same level of information!

 

[Kudoscycles]

Foxtrot,the Bosch system is well proven and developed over several years,at this time I cannot see any advantage using Yamaha or Shimano,the price difference is very small.
The best value,in my opinion,Bosch bike is the KTM Force 27 or 29,elektrofarrad24.de have that bike at Euro 1999.00 plus shipping cost and London Electric Bike Company have the same bike at £1699.00. I know KTM took advantage of the favourable UK exchange rate,it doesn't seem worth all the hassle and difficulty of warranty implications when the prices seem almost the same in sterling.
With regard to dongles they will void any warranty but you can buy off the internet,they are easy to fit.
You can try any of these bikes at the London Electric Bike Company,if you ultimately decide to buy from Germany that is obviously your choice. Can I suggest you try a BPM or Panasonic hub drive bike at LEBC,Bosch have done a wonderful marketing job so many customers are influenced by that but are pleasantly surprised when they try a hub drive bike,the hub drives are definitely quicker and easily derestricted by pushing buttons on the display,you obviously appreciate that makes the bike illegal as a bike.
Hope that helps
KudosDave

 

[2Lazy]

I have no direct experience with e-bikeshop.co.uk but they are by all accounts a well regarded dealership. I think Martin from e-bikeshop.co.uk posts on the forum. And he has written some really helpful and informative blog posts and video reviews. That suggests to me that they're a company who go the extra mile for their customers. If it were me I'd buy from a reputable UK company and get the warranty and customer support that goes with it.

 

[RobF]

The Badass clip on dongle does the same job as a wired in one and is easier to fit and usually a bit cheaper.

I know it works on Bosch bikes, I have one.

Badass say it also works on Steps and Yamaha.

No reasons to disbelieve them.

https://www.badassebikes.com/en/

 

[Croxden]

If the girl from their web page was in front I doubt I would need a dongle.

Then die with a smile on my face.

 

[Foxtrot]

Ok Wander I think your going over the top a bit. All I said was that I thought they looked a bit expensive compared to some sites. I have no doubt that there will be lots of people like yourself who would recommend them. However I always speak as I find and the sales guy I spoke although he went to great pain to explain that when you buy from them you are not only buying the bike but their after sales support as well. Well I'm here to tell you that they took my email address and promised to send me a proper quote for the things we discussed, but to date they have not replied. So I wonder how good their after sales service is based on their before sales service. I'm just unlucky I guess or they are just not interested.

 

[Foxtrot]

Thanks to everyone else who offered advice. I don't think I will buy the bike from overseas as it could present too many problems if something did go wrong. However I was surprised by JohnCades comment that the warranty would be with the dealer you bought the bike off. I was always led to believe that it was a manufacturers warranty and you could take the bike to any major stockist of theirs. Rob I've checked out that 'Badass clip on dongle' and I've seen a video of how to fit it. How the hell does that work then? and is it as reliable as the wired one? Well I'm off to Cardiff tomorrow to test ride a few more with Damian Harris. And yes Croxden I know what you mean pant! pant!

 

[trex]

...
I was always led to believe that it was a manufacturers warranty and you could take the bike to any major stockist of theirs.

so do I. The warranty certificate should tell you how to get support if needed.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Well I'm here to tell you that they took my email address and promised to send me a proper quote for the things we discussed, but to date they have not replied. So I wonder how good their after sales service is based on their before sales service. I'm just unlucky I guess or they are just not interested.

Hello Mr Foxtrot.

I can only imagine your real name is Martin. Top name by the way!..

Our response to emails is very quick indeed as many forum members here will be able to back me up on.

If I am correct, you gave us your email address yesterday over the phone, to which we emailed the requested details within minutes. Unfortunately it was returned as a false email address by our mail delivery system, printscreen here to prove:

The email you gave was returned straight away. So using our initiative, we tried sending it to the same email but by spelling your name with a 'y' just incase.. That was returned straight away yet again. We had 3 calls since that. But we took the time to go back through our logged calls in the office to obtain your number to call back and verify your email address. However you called on a withheld number.This left no other way of contacting you.

Can't say many would have gone to this length to provide you the information requested.

If you are happy to correct me on your email address I will ensure it is sent again straight away to you.

Regards
Martin

 

[Wander]

Ok Wander I think your going over the top a bit.

Mate, apologies, I wasn't meaning to offend, rather help by pointing out the pitfalls of trying to save a few hundred quid. Personally I'd rather pay the extra & be comfortable in the knowledge that the UK support was there.

I'll think that you'll find Martin's expertise & passion are second to none.

Anyway it looks like you've decided to drop the idea & buy from a UK dealer so good luck, like me and many on here have found you won't regret the purchase.

 

[RobF]

Rob I've checked out that 'Badass clip on dongle' and I've seen a video of how to fit it. How the hell does that work then? and is it as reliable as the wired one?

I couldn't tell you exactly how it works, but it fools the Bosch electronics into thinking the bike is doing one third of the speed it really is.

Thus the motor will not cut off until a real speed of 45mph is reached.

As far as I know, the wired dongles work the same way.

Using either dongle, the speed reading on the main display reads roughly one third real speed.

With the Badass, this happens at about 12mph, so the Bosch readout changes from 11mph to about 4mph - true speed 12mph.

The dongles are worth having if you want to ride above 15mph.

But bear in mind the motor is tuned for torque, not speed, so the amount of assistance you get falls off dramatically as you go above 15mph.

It's still a very useful difference, but don't expect the dongle to turn your bike into a mini moped.

Also, you can not get something for nothing.

If you want to cruise at 20mph using the dongle you will still have to pedal fairly hard, and you will use loads of battery power.

Gearing can also come into play.

The manufacturers know the bike is a dead loss to pedal unassisted for long above 15mph, so some bikes don't have the gearing for higher speeds.

This can be tinkered with, usually by changing the front chain ring.

On a derailleur geared Bosch bike, you will already have about as high a gear as you can get on the rear.

The man for new front rings is your friend Martin.

It indicates why he is widely recommended on here, the guy takes the trouble to source spares and keep a stock of them.

One or two of the other Bosch dealers who post on here do something similar, although I reckon Martin must keep the widest range.

Another example is the car charger for Bosch bikes which Martin is just about to stock.

Looks dear to me, but most places would give you a blank look if you asked for one.

 

[Foxtrot]

Well let me apologize also. Martin thank you for all your efforts trying to get hold of me. These things happen from time to time. I'll get in touch again through you website. And Wander I'm pretty thick skinned and no offence taken I appreciate you took the time to reply and only meant well

Foxtrot

 

[JohnCade]

Thanks to everyone else who offered advice. I don't think I will buy the bike from overseas as it could present too many problems if something did go wrong. However I was surprised by JohnCades comment that the warranty would be with the dealer you bought the bike off. I was always led to believe that it was a manufacturers warranty and you could take the bike to any major stockist of theirs. Rob I've checked out that 'Badass clip on dongle' and I've seen a video of how to fit it. How the hell does that work then? and is it as reliable as the wired one? Well I'm off to Cardiff tomorrow to test ride a few more with Damian Harris. And yes Croxden I know what you mean pant! pant!

Check out the threads here about warranties. That’s how it works.

 

[Foxtrot]

RobF, thanks for the in-depth reply. Interesting stuff. I have never had a speedometer on a bike so I really have no idea how fast I'm going. I've always imagined it to be around the 20mph mark but I could be totally wrong.

Maybe I won't need a dongle, however when I've driven 15mph in the car it seems so slooooow, but it could be deceptive.
So I'm thinking if all the bikes are restricted to 15mph (Then they are all equal) and I should just try to find the lightest one with the most gears then. From memory KTM bikes seem quite light.

Getting off topic a bit, I've only ever ridden one rear hub bike around a car park the Giant Roam XR E+ from Tredz. It seemed like a nice quality bike plus it had 20 gears. The down side there were no hills in that car park and so don't know how it would perform in comparison to the Scott bike I took out last weekend. That was an awesome climber. So I guess my ideal bike would be one that could cruise at 20mph and have plenty of climbing power when needed and travel about 25 miles on a charge.....Not asking a lot am I

 

[JohnCade]

Many German bikes use the ten percent leeway in the law.and cut out at a little over 17 mph. Kalkhoffs certainly do and from a thread here a little while ago others do as well.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Foxtrot.....you really should try the KTM e-Panasonic hub drive,if speed and hill climbing are what you are looking for that bike cannot be beaten...where are you located ?
KudosDave

 

[Foxtrot]

I'm living in sunny Wales KudosDave. I think your based over in Kent if memory serves. A bit to far to travel in a day unfortunately mate

 

[Croxden]

One thing I never see mentioned is the ability to go slow.


I rode uphill through the wood at walking pace keeping level with an old colleague and chatting away for two miles. This I don't think can be done without a torque sensor.


Whether the hub motors can do this I've never tried, may start to over heat, but all one gets on here is how fast or able to get up hills quicker.


I like to have control of the bike by peddling, not have to adjust power settings, squeezing brake levers to change gear and all the other odd things folk seem to take for granted.


You have to know what you want from a bike; a quick run around a car park isn't going to do this.


My favourite dealer no longer has the hill they had in their old place, I rode around Worcester trying the Haibike and it seemed OK. Back home it is noticeably more powerful with a longer range than my other Bosch Performance motored bike. I did not pick up the difference whilst testing it but on my hilly circuit back home over the twenty odd miles I do it became apparent.


Not easy picking the right bike.