Brexit, for once some facts.

[BrendanJ]

I don't confuse them, but apparently you regard threats as a legitimate political tool and that we have a right to dictate policy to the other 28 nations in the EU so that we enjoy terms no one else has.
Once again you are trying to make light of the true situation, my tendency is to see though the myths and observe the true reason for what you are really proposing.
Have you forgotten that you actually confirmed the strategy you believed in on that earlier post?

"post #266
Two level system is good, The Euro area with full Fiscal and political union and the rest, outside the Euro but part of the Common market, and outside of Free movement area so accommodating new entrants, even Turkey
Frankly this is basically what we are asking for"

Except now you think even more direct threats will get better result
You cannot really believe such strong arm tactics are likely to be a success, yet you still keep trotting them out as if there is some reason to believe what are simply dreams will come true.
The Europeans will see through this charade for what it is.
Just the UK behaving like a schoolyard bully.

OG you are doing the usual, reading into comments what you want to, the statement of a desired two tier system is correct, but you forget conveniently to mention I then went on to say, if that cannot be achieved then we should get out, with or without trade deal,
See through myths, you've spent most of this thread creating them, it's in your head.
When have I proposed threats, extortion, strong arm tactics., again it is simply your imagination getting the better of you.
I'm sorry you have really lost the plot now, must be time for your afternoon nap.
You are on the naughty step again, only smilies for you until you start to behave

 

[oldgroaner]

"
Philip Hammond may borrow billions: Chancellor hints at a spending spurge to counter Brexit shock
Hammond hinted government may borrow to help adjust to Brexit 'shock'
Chancellor said extra cash could be ploughed into infrastructure projects
Said Government junked aim of eliminating deficit by end of Parliament
He rejected idea Emergency Budget would be needed in wake of EU exit
Philip Hammond yesterday dropped a heavy hint that the Government was prepared to borrow billions of pounds extra to help the economy adjust to the 'shock' of Brexit.
The new Chancellor said the extra cash could be ploughed into infrastructure projects in a sharp change of course from the George Osborne years.
In his first comments since replacing Mr Osborne in No11, he also confirmed that the May Government had junked the target of eliminating the deficit by the end of the current Parliament.
And he flatly rejected the idea that an Emergency Budget would be needed in the wake of the vote to leave the EU."
So we also have to add an increased level of Debt to the mess, it gets better every day, doesn't it?
Panic is from now on referred to as "Adjustment to the "shock" of Brexit.
So we have an admission that a "Shock" exists?
And it will cost Billions to control? Wow!
Brexit: Costing Billions even BEFORE it happens, how much will the final bill be?
And the Government is hiding the costs from the Public by not having an Emergency Budget as otherwise they would be seen as proving Osborne was right and he wasn't scaremongering.
Oh Dear! that would never do with Brexiters, now would it?

 

[derf]

No It doesn't, they need them, they want them, and they are largely temp work visas, crammed into slum Accomadation, not consuming services
God not another one with a Philippine wife, what is it with guys

ive reported you, thick little racist. and if this website doesnt respond I'm taking it further.

 

[oldgroaner]

No

OG you are doing the usual, reading into comments what you want to, the statement of a desired two tier system is correct, but you forget conveniently to mention I then went on to say, if that cannot be achieved then we should get out, with or without trade deal,
See through myths, you've spent most of this thread creating them, it's in your head.
When have I proposed threats, extortion, strong arm tactics., again it is simply your imagination getting the better of you.
I'm sorry you have really lost the plot now, must be time for your afternoon nap.
You are on the naughty step again, only smilies for you until you start to behave

No Brendan you did not say that here is your post in it's entirety
↑
If there's a Brexit vote, this is very likely.



The EU will never collapse. It might well split into a two level system or it might lose a few members, but the following core will remain intact. Germany, France, The Netherlands, Denmark, Austria and the new Eastern bloc countries will ensure that they at least remain the EU.
.
Click to expand...
Two level system is good, The Euro area with full Fiscal and political union and the rest, outside the Euro but part of the Common market, and outside of Free movement area so accommodating new entrants, even Turkey
Frankly this is basically what we are asking for and helps Spain, Italy and Greece Portugal to be more competitive with the Germans with floating currency and less restrictions. I heard this was under consideration, why don't they just get on with it?

#266BrendanJ, Jun 7, 2016
So this was a deliberate lie, wasn't it?
"I then went on to say, if that cannot be achieved then we should get out, with or without trade deal,"
It's not there is it?
As usual you are wrong.
Try I didn't say that at the time, but meant it?
Alternatively I have since qualified that statement adding
"if that cannot be achieved then we should get out, with or without trade deal,"
And point us at the post reference for it, there's a good chap.
But the two statement had better be there and both connected, not made at separate times, or you are still telling Porkies.

 

[BrendanJ]

No

No Brendan you did not say that here is your post in it's entirety
↑
If there's a Brexit vote, this is very likely.



The EU will never collapse. It might well split into a two level system or it might lose a few members, but the following core will remain intact. Germany, France, The Netherlands, Denmark, Austria and the new Eastern bloc countries will ensure that they at least remain the EU.
.
Click to expand...
Two level system is good, The Euro area with full Fiscal and political union and the rest, outside the Euro but part of the Common market, and outside of Free movement area so accommodating new entrants, even Turkey
Frankly this is basically what we are asking for and helps Spain, Italy and Greece Portugal to be more competitive with the Germans with floating currency and less restrictions. I heard this was under consideration, why don't they just get on with it?

#266BrendanJ, Jun 7, 2016
So this was a deliberate lie, wasn't it?
"I then went on to say, if that cannot be achieved then we should get out, with or without trade deal,"
It's not there is it?
As usual you are wrong.
Try I didn't say that at the time, but meant it?
Alternatively I have since qualified that statement adding
"if that cannot be achieved then we should get out, with or without trade deal,"
And point us at the post reference for it, there's a good chap.
But the two statement had better be there and both connected, not made at separate times, or you are still telling Porkies.

Look for the post, it's there, I'm certainly not searching for you. Your manipulation knows no bounds.. It's obviously all a game to you based on too much free time and bitterness over the referendum result. Very sad

 

[oldgroaner]

Look for the post, it's there, I'm certainly not searching for you. Your manipulation knows no bounds.. It's obviously all a game to you based on too much free time and bitterness over the referendum result. Very sad

I did, it isn't but as an example of your logic
"
↑
Brendan....do I detect a change in your thinking since Leadsom,the last crew of a very rocky ship jumped in the lifeboat?
Just out of interest,what did you want out of Brexit?
KudosDave
As I have said repeatedly throughout this thread
The ideal was stay in a truly reformed EU that had a cat in hells chance of surviving and serving its citizens,
I increasingly felt reform without a Brexit vote was impossible, but the Brexit vote could hasten the necessary reform, which everyone on this thread poo pooed
Failing that get out, leave completely, no half way houses or Devils compromises, run our own show which unlike some I have confidence in UK Plc to do it
Is that clear enough?

#2428BrendanJ, Monday at 4:11 PM
Very clear! you hoped the Brexit vote would force the EU to favour the UK
In other words that it was an effective threat.
And really you didn't want to leave the EU.
But if if comes to the fact your little ploy has failed rather than admit defeat you will take your ball home and sulk, hoping somehow to make ends meet
despite overwhelming evidence from experts that this is a bad idea.

 

[oldgroaner]

I did, it isn't but as an example of your logic
"
↑
Brendan....do I detect a change in your thinking since Leadsom,the last crew of a very rocky ship jumped in the lifeboat?
Just out of interest,what did you want out of Brexit?
KudosDave
As I have said repeatedly throughout this thread
The ideal was stay in a truly reformed EU that had a cat in hells chance of surviving and serving its citizens,
I increasingly felt reform without a Brexit vote was impossible, but the Brexit vote could hasten the necessary reform, which everyone on this thread poo pooed
Failing that get out, leave completely, no half way houses or Devils compromises, run our own show which unlike some I have confidence in UK Plc to do it
Is that clear enough?

#2428BrendanJ, Monday at 4:11 PM
Very clear! you hoped the Brexit vote would force the EU to favour the UK
In other words that it was an effective threat.
And really you didn't want to leave the EU.
But if if comes to the fact your little ploy has failed rather than admit defeat you will take your ball home and sulk, hoping somehow to make ends meet
despite overwhelming evidence from experts that this is a bad idea.

Brendan has no answer, so sucks his thumb and posts a

 

[oldgroaner]

No It doesn't, they need them, they want them, and they are largely temp work visas, crammed into slum Accomadation, not consuming services
God not another one with a Philippine wife, what is it with guys

Brendan; don't make yourself look an even bigger fool with comments like that,
Apologise immediately.

 

[trex]

market reaction to David Davis article 50 'beginning of 2017' and Ceta is his preferred option - the Pound is dropping all day. I wonder how long before he has to change tack. 42% of the Telegraph's readership don't believe May is going to trigger article 50.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36802756

 

[Kudoscycles]

What a joke, and all those numbers came out of your head I suppose, or did you ask the wife. No google for you eh! Those numbers are actually quite small if you think on it. And as you point out are very well controlled, we cannot even give a count to nearest 100k, never mind actual number
And huge numbers are temp contract only, you know have to go back, so never get to qualify
And as I said many times immigration is not the point of Brexit, although you keep trying to bring it back to it. Get a life

The BBC did a walk about poll of Gosport,talking to many different ages,every one who voted leave voted purely on immigration. I suspect that many thought that there were no other subjects about the referendum that mattered.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

As you know well Dave the immigration card has been well over done, in this debate and an informed conversation would start with defining the different types, students, temp work, permanent immagration requests, refugees. From Europe or outside Europe, required for vacancies or just sleeping rough on the streets

But we can't even count them, we just don't know, what better argument for control, and of course the EU can't countenance that, until it suits them and they start erecting fences and quota,s and simply ignoring the rules altogether, which is one point the Brits could learn from other European countries

Brendan,been at the dandelion juice again,its Colin at KTM,Dave is at Kudos.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

market reaction to David Davis article 50 'beginning of 2017' and Ceta is his preferred option - the Pound is dropping all day. I wonder how long before he has to change tack. 42% of the Telegraph's readership don't believe May is going to trigger article 50.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36802756

We'll borrow someone's plan then nothing can go wrong
Seems to be the best the government can do as they have no one capable of having ideas of their own, or who even knows how to negotiate a trade deal.
Pathetic!
And our future depends on this set of clowns?
Obviously they are going to have to hire immigrant experts to do it for them
How ironic!
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

Brendan,been at the dandelion juice again,its Colin at KTM,Dave is at Kudos.
KudosDave

Don't bother him with facts it brings him out in Smiley's[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Kudoscycles]

David Davis said that we should be able to trigger Brexit by end of 2016,start of 2017. Who's he kidding! We dont have any negotiators available,as Oliver Letwin (old Brexit guy)said all the trained negotiators are currently working for the EU,would you quit your job on the uncertainty of Brexit.?
I notice not one member of the government has yet mentioned how they are going to overcome the repealing of the 1972 ECA Act,but the legal profession has many references to it. At some point Davis and May are going to have to deal with the Act,that will be interesting in the courts....would such a point of constitution have to go to the European Courts,hehe????
KudosDave

 

[trex]

And our future depends on this set of clowns?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

afraid so.

I reckon David Davis knows that Ceta won't fly in London, Scotland and NI so he flies this kite first.

 

[oldgroaner]

And while all this is going on there is a growing resentment among brexit voters round here that the government is selling them down the river and they are not going to get any of the promises they thought they had been given coming true, if care isn't taken to placate them there could be trouble.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Kudoscycles]

Brendan,looks like you are right to hurry,if this is true?

At the moment, Article 50 allows an EU Member State to secede from the Union by giving two years notice to the relevant authorities.

However, as from March 31st 2017 – a date just nine months away next weekend – Article 50 will be subject to the dreaded Qualified Majority Vote (QMV)…that is to say, we will have to persuade a total of 14 EU Member States to support our decision to leave.

Didnt tell us that before we had the referendum,did they,and not telling us now....shame no Question Time,that would have been a wonderful question for the panel

I wonder which 14 EU countries hate us enough to want us out....I have just realised the cunning plan ,send Boris round every EU country and he can be relied upon to insult the lot,hehe...
KudosDave

 

[trex]

Boris and Gove are in no hurry for article 50. I wonder if they knew.

 

[Kudoscycles]

This is from a website 'britishdemocraticparty.org'....they were campaigning for a petition to have another referendum,now they are surprised to have won the vote I bet they regret their petition.
Anyway,there was a useful bit in their website......

As a matter of UK constitutional law, the present primacy of EU law derives solely from the European Communities Act. If the Act were repealed then any EU law (unless it had been transposed into British legislation) would become unenforceable in the United Kingdom and any powers delegated by the Act to EU institutions would return to the British Parliament.

Unfortunately, there is a potential large fly in the ointment: the result of the EU referendum is apparently only advisory, with no legal standing and not binding on MPs who could therefore claim to have autonomy and choose to remain in the EU irrespective of what the public have voted for. They could ignore the voters’ express wishes and do nothing to set in motion the leave procedures and even demand that another referendum take place after securing some additional minor concessions from officials. The EU has a sordid, undemocratic history of overturning referendums and demanding that voting takes place again, as happened in France, Denmark and Northern Ireland.

And that is from ardent Leavers.....
Looks like David Davis has got to win some friends at home before he goes off to Europe.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Boris and Gove are in no hurry for article 50. I wonder if they knew.

Well Cameron didnt know about the referendum being only advisory,he also didnt know about how to trigger Article 50,he had been in the job for 6 years.
Boris and Davis have only had the job for a day,I bet they dont.
Seems like the whole lot of the conservative party need to go off to law school.
KudosDave