Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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With respect oyster,and,I have a sister living in Swansea, Wales lost its freedom at least a thousand years ago and is seen as part of England, as much as Wessex and Mercia... The only thing going for them is a brilliant Rugby tradition, . I cannot see any independent Wales Sorry.
The HoC has passed specific legislation for Wales (not even in respect of devolution/Welsh assembly). How can anyone claim E&W is one country when some laws, even non-devolved, are different?

And I hope she escaped the flooding.
 

Danidl

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The HoC has passed specific legislation for Wales (not even in respect of devolution/Welsh assembly). How can anyone claim E&W is one country when some laws, even non-devolved, are different?

And I hope she escaped the flooding.
Occupied territories?. The HoC is supreme, it can put the Hebrides or the Gower under martial law any time it suits them
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Occupied territories?. The HoC is supreme, it can put the Hebrides or the Gower under martial law any time it suits them
Nah! The ISO is supreme. :)

Wales was officially recognised as a country in December 2011 by the influential International Organisation for Standardisation (ISO).
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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With respect oyster,and,I have a sister living in Swansea, Wales lost its freedom at least a thousand years ago and is seen as part of England, as much as Wessex and Mercia... The only thing going for them is a brilliant Rugby tradition, . I cannot see any independent Wales Sorry.
Wikipedia has some interesting facts about Wales's economy. Per capita income - circa £19k/annum - is 90% of eu average; cost of living 93% of average; 66% income services; rest agri and aerospace. FWIW I think you're selling Wales short I imagine as part of the eu it could develop and do well
 
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oyster

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Wikipedia has some interesting facts about Wales's economy. Per capita income - circa £19k/annum - is 90% of eu average; cost of living 93% of average; 66% income services; rest agri and aerospace. FWIW I think you're selling Wales short I imagine as part of the eu it could develop and do well
Especially at smuggling across the England-Wales border...
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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How can anyone claim E&W is one country when some laws, even non-devolved, are different?
A principality can have separate and different laws, but until you get rid of the Prince of Wales your country will not have achieved true country status. Take no notice of what the HoC says, as you've acknowledged yourself they are all liars exploiting expediency.

A principality can be a separate country, for example Monaco which is a City State and microcountry contained within French borders and the sea, but it has that status because it was never a part of France and guaranteed the continuation of it's pre-existing independence by the French government. Furthermore their Prince is their own and hereditary. That of course is nothing like the Welsh situation which is subservient to the UK parliament and throne and the Welsh are subjects of the UK crown.

In truth though the status of Wales is a just a part of the huge confused mess that we've made of the structure of these islands:

There are four nations whose peoples have those nationalities.

Wales and England, once the one country of Britannia under the Romans, are federated as Britain.

Superimposed on that federation is the superfederation of Great Britain which includes Scotland, the word Great indicating the larger area, not status. The word should have been Greater of course.

Then superimposed on those two federations is the United Kingdom, a sort of super-superfederation which has added Ireland in varying degrees.

None of those federations is a nation, therefore their peoples cannot have federal nationalities, such as British, Great British or UKean.

Yet the UK government in its customary lack of wisdom gives in recent times a notional British citizenship to any who settle here and naturalise. They should of course only grant the citizenship of the country settled in.

That governmental confusion results from the odd notion that we are all British as well as our true nationality, but of course we are not. The Scots are not, since Scotland is not a part of Britain and never has been. And to say the English and Welsh are British both denies that England and Wales are separate nations and separate countries. If we were still the Britons of Roman times, there could only be just the one country called Britain and the nations and nationalities of England and Wales couldn't exist.

Other countries are far to sensible to have anything to do with this shambles, as far as they are concerned there is just the United Kingdom, or in the language of the United Nations, le Royaume Uni de Grande-Bretagne et d'Irlande du Nord, all lumped in as one!

And to them we are all just UK citizens.
.
 
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Danidl

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Wikipedia has some interesting facts about Wales's economy. Per capita income - circa £19k/annum - is 90% of eu average; cost of living 93% of average; 66% income services; rest agri and aerospace. FWIW I think you're selling Wales short I imagine as part of the eu it could develop and do well
I would be delighted to see Wales in the EU... I do however see it as one of the regions of England ,..just as the West Country is another region of England.
And of course I would be thrilled to see England in the EU.
 
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oyster

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People who have been flooded can at least relax - they are not going to get a PM visit.

(Not that he is calling a Cobra meeting either.)
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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.. thats only Harris, South and North Uist is more normal
Outer Hebrides (spell check that please Agnew) is stunning but must rank as one of most untidy places on earth. When folk finish with cars (or tractors, or trailers or lorries) they stick them in a field to rot down. It almost spoils place. I, d still live on Barra though, warm sea, great wind and surprisingly mild climate... but you get all four seasons most days.... And basking sharks frighten me to death when you sail near them. Thought it was a submarine... with a massive mouth..
Best beaches in world??? Most interesting Airport/runway in world?
Ace place... but if you are a local, take your scrap somewhere...
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Outer Hebrides. When folk finish with cars (or tractors, or trailers or lorries) they stick them in a field to rot down. if you are a local, take your scrap somewhere...
To be truly environmental and recycle properly, we need to demanufacture everything to return spent things to their origins as far as humanly possible, designing with that in mind and the whole cost of doing that included in the purchase price.

That would put the brakes on the consumer society and stop growth for growth's sake.
.
 

Zlatan

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To be truly environmental and recycle properly, we need to demanufacture everything to return spent things to their origins as far as humanly possible, designing with that in mind and the whole cost of doing that included in the purchase price.

That would put the brakes on the consumer society and stop growth for growth's sake.
.
I think manufacturers should play their part, they buillt, supplied and profited from the goods. They really should be partly responsible for its demanufacture..
As should Oil Producers in cleaning up our air. They supply Oil, Petrol, etc etc which pollutes atmosphere. They should be building plants to remove the rubbish they have put in first place or spending profits offsetting the pollution. Yes, I know they already do but I, d guess their actions at moment account for 1%, at most, of pollutants they create. They should account for the lot.
Tobacco profits really should go to those its harmed. Its a strange world, walk down street, trip over an obvious hazard and council are held responsible. Smoke a cigarette, get lung cancer and its no problem for the drug producer.???
Same goes for saturday nights. Folk get hammered, fight, cause mayhem end up in casualty and who foots bill. We do. Should be breweries. If they did they, d be rather more careful in its distribution. Crazy world.
Sell folk drugs, make massive profits not a shred of accountability to those damaged by product. Its peoples' fault for buying product??? Nothing to do with them for supplying it, unless its illegal ofcourse. Then its different. Very odd. We prosecute folk for supplying cannabis but do nothing to those supplying alcohol/tobacco when their products kill.????
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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Its a strange world, walk down street, trip over an obvious hazard and council are held responsible. Smoke a cigarette, get lung cancer and its no problem for the drug producer.???
it's because tory MP protect cigarette manufacturers.
Nothing stops our government to pass a law requiring all companies to be carbon neutral or health neutral.
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
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I think manufacturers should play their part, they buillt, supplied and profited from the goods. They really should be partly responsible for its demanufacture..
As should Oil Producers in cleaning up our air. They supply Oil, Petrol, etc etc which pollutes atmosphere. They should be building plants to remove the rubbish they have put in first place or spending profits offsetting the pollution. Yes, I know they already do but I, d guess their actions at moment account for 1%, at most, of pollutants they create. They should account for the lot.
Tobacco profits really should go to those its harmed. Its a strange world, walk down street, trip over an obvious hazard and council are held responsible. Smoke a cigarette, get lung cancer and its no problem for the drug producer.???
Same goes for saturday nights. Folk get hammered, fight, cause mayhem end up in casualty and who foots bill. We do. Should be breweries. If they did they, d be rather more careful in its distribution. Crazy world.
Sell folk drugs, make massive profits not a shred of accountability to those damaged by product. Its peoples' fault for buying product??? Nothing to do with them for supplying it, unless its illegal ofcourse. Then its different. Very odd. We prosecute folk for supplying cannabis but do nothing to those supplying alcohol/tobacco when their products kill.????
in principle, yes. in practice you may want to step of the soap box. by voting for Brexit you put that flaccid deregulating twit in nr 10 and removed us from the environmental and consumer protection of the eu. and weren't you spouting Corbyn hatred a few pages ago and singing the virtues of the new alt right hijacked tory party. and that's before we get to the fact that companies simply cut costs because we consumers don't want to pay. You wouldn't be enthralled if that little porsche was suddenly 15k dearer because someone had to deconstruct it with skilled European labour would you? the buck, im afraid stops with us consumers, and until sea levels rise a few meters I don't see us properly locating our moral compasses
 

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