Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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If it ain't bust don't try and mend it... System we have is doing OK??
Indeed, especially when there's likely to be single jabs for future SARS type infections, with one already with us.

Better still if we get that combined with the 'flu jab as a single injection MMR style, simpler the better.
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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I've watched so many of the A & E etc programs on TV that I know how nervous and even hysterical so many get about having a jab, even to the point of refusal. The notion of any skin piercing is enough to trigger those responses. The idea that many would self administer is a non starter, and pointless anyway if a nurse of doctor has to be standing by to watch they do it properly as Danidl suggests.
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My suggestion is that they be in the local centre waiting for the infrequent bad reaction. I think you underestimate the ability of people to stick things in themselves... Teenage and sub teen girls do it all the time with eariercings , athletes with illicit substances , and plenty of diabetics
 

Nev

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May 1, 2018
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Looks like the US may be about to pause the J&J vaccine roll out due to concerns about blood clots in a very small number of people (6 I think). I think J&J use a similar technology to the AZ vaccine (is that correct).
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I think you underestimate the ability of people to stick things in themselves... Teenage and sub teen girls do it all the time with eariercings , athletes with illicit substances , and plenty of diabetics.
Not too many of them in the over 50s we've been jabbing so far!

I'd still see it going wrong with many average people and can't see the point. They still have to be handed the correct vaccine and some will have questions they want answered, so the person handing them the vaccine might just as well stick it in. There's been no shortage of people skilled in the administering anyway.
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Not too many of them in the over 50s we've been jabbing so far!

I'd still see it going wrong with many average people and can't see the point. They still have to be handed the correct vaccine and some will have questions they want answered, so the person handing them the vaccine might just as well stick it in. There's been no shortage of people skilled in the administering anyway.
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I'm in online communication with quite a number of people who inject themselves (or partners, etc.) - IVF, B12, insulin, and several other reasons. (Without even considering those who might be injecting other substances.)
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I'm in online communication with quite a number of people who inject themselves (or partners, etc.) - IVF, B12, insulin, and several other reasons. (Without even considering those who might be injecting other substances.)
Of course I know that many do, but I'm also well aware of the many who wouldn't. And as said, Why?

We've had no shortage of people skilled at carrying out the injections, so many indeed that we haven't use all the offers such as that from St Johns Ambulance. Nor would self injection increase the injection rate since that has been limited by vaccine supplies, not personnel.

So self injection is an irrelevance.
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Danidl

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Of course I know that many do, but I'm also well aware of the many who wouldn't. And as said, Why?

We've had no shortage of people skilled at carrying out the injections, so many indeed that we haven't use all the offers such as that from St Johns Ambulance. Nor would self injection increase the injection rate since that has been limited by vaccine supplies, not personnel.

So self injection is an irrelevance.
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The only relevance it has or had, was that it allowed for more local distribution, . Having the vaccination centres in huge stadiums ,and bring people together queing and travelling makes great publicity and spectacle, and increases the likelihood of virus transmission in the 3 week window, whereas people trotting down to the local school or dispensary or closed pub or community centre is better for everything else. The other point of course is that the use of these public buildings is FREE., Whereas Stadia are not
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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No - the website for NHS England has fallen over...
And? Yes, every system in entire history of mankind has hiccups...
Just checked figures. On 9th April over 500k jabs were administered??
You want to tear it up and start again.? Let them get on with it. It's fine.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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The only relevance it has or had, was that it allowed for more local distribution, . Having the vaccination centres in huge stadiums ,and bring people together queing and travelling makes great publicity and spectacle, and increases the likelihood of virus transmission in the 3 week window, whereas people trotting down to the local school or dispensary or closed pub or community centre is better for everything else. The other point of course is that the use of these public buildings is FREE., Whereas Stadia are not
Ours was a local leisure centre.. A few squash courts, couple of Astra turf pitches.....plenty of parking, central, plenty of rooms and an easy one way system through building. Perfect. What's the issue?? Think you are looking for faults.
 
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Danidl

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Ours was a local leisure centre.. A few squash courts, couple of Astra turf pitches.....plenty of parking, central, plenty of rooms and an easy one way system through building. Perfect. What's the issue?? Think you are looking for faults.
That sounds fine.. provided people had easy access and were not traveling far..
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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The only relevance it has or had, was that it allowed for more local distribution, . Having the vaccination centres in huge stadiums ,and bring people together queing and travelling makes great publicity and spectacle, and increases the likelihood of virus transmission in the 3 week window, whereas people trotting down to the local school or dispensary or closed pub or community centre is better for everything else. The other point of course is that the use of these public buildings is FREE., Whereas Stadia are not
I don't know how many times I have to explain that schools were out of the question.

Pubs are not free, they are commercial buildings.

Many community centres are not free, many like our one run on commercial lines.

And the last time I went to the pharmacy I had to queue with others for quite a while outside since only one person was allowed in at a time. Adding all the injectees wouldn't be practical since pharmacies too are commercial businesses needing to earn a living.

Our program has been running very well thanks, with the exception that distribution quantities should have been handled better. Your suggestion of far greater fragmentation of supplies would inevitably have made this far worse due to lack of age related data in small areas, quite apart from the much greater distribution costs involved,

We needed to act fast and on a large scale, did so and succeeded.
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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That sounds fine.. provided people had easy access and were not traveling far..
About 2 miles for me by car, on a main bus route, probably 4 miles from town centre but very near, actually on, quite a large housing estate. It was ideal. We had choice of surgery but thought leisure centre would be more spacious,easier parking but probably 400 yards further away?? Whole experience was efficient, friendly and certainly felt safe. We arrived 15 mins early and were told to park up and wait in car until 5 mins before appointment. Can't fault it.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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The primary schools were not ideal, since as as I've replied before, they were still operational as schools for key workers children and others for various reasons, so they couldn't be and weren't used. The bulk of our vaccination program has been completed in large centres, either existing health centres or specially set up centres, making for better centralised administration.

You've ignored the question of the purchasing from overseas and supply and installation of the refrigeration for the Pfizer. Who will do this in an NHS which is fragmented into numerous self managing area health trusts in four different countries? It had to be done internationally/nationally just like the vaccine distribution, by a newly set up national body for that purpose.

And self administration is an impractical red herring, nothing to do with the organisation of the vaccine program.
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Odd that our vaccination centre is in a detached working men's club with no special facilities.
Sorry not buying the idea it can't be done by the NHS our Pfizer vaccine was, en masse. staffed by the local GP's
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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My suggestion is that they be in the local centre waiting for the infrequent bad reaction. I think you underestimate the ability of people to stick things in themselves... Teenage and sub teen girls do it all the time with eariercings , athletes with illicit substances , and plenty of diabetics
So, random question - I've had a DNA (I'm free, I'm free!) and found Danidl's post (about "local places" and "sticking things into oneself") arousing (as always). And a bit thought provoking. Pandemic aside, why are all of you still on soggy isle if you're free (as retirees) to be floating in any balmy ocean off any sun baked coast of your choice? I've been a bit of a serial migrant and can already feel the soft trade wind in martinique waking me up soon after early retirement.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
That sounds fine.. provided people had easy access and were not traveling far..
About 2 miles for me by car, on a main bus route, probably 4 miles from town centre but very near, actually on, quite a large housing estate. It was ideal. We had choice of surgery but thought leisure centre would be more spacious,easier parking but probably 400 yards further away?? Whole experience was efficient, friendly and certainly felt safe. We arrived 15 mins early and were told to park up and wait in car until 5 mins before appointment. Can't fault it.
3 miles for me and the same excellent experience as Zlatan.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,763
30,349
Odd that our vaccination centre is in a detached working men's club with no special facilities.
Sorry not buying the idea it can't be done by the NHS our Pfizer vaccine was, en masse. staffed by the local GP's
Totally different here, GPs not directly involved anywhere I know of, despite them often practising from the area health centres which handled the program using nurses and volunteers.
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jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
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Odd that our vaccination centre is in a detached working men's club with no special facilities.
Sorry not buying the idea it can't be done by the NHS our Pfizer vaccine was, en masse. staffed by the local GP's
Ours was. Unhygienic unventilated local hospital (with rich history of superbugs and special investigations) and army of (rather nice dedicated) nhs staff and ex nursing and gp volunteers all.
 
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