looking for electric folder.

[1lor]

Hi all

I've just joined, i'm looking into getting a folding electric bike. I had a look in different places and people are of the opinion better to stick to Brompton, for resale value and that 3rd party companies often make products for them which is useful.

i'm interested in buying the Brompton M6L. Can anyone help with this, advise or give useful input so that I know what to consider and must be aware of. I have a regular 21 speed shimano bike, and need a folder for public transport.

Thanks

 

[cyclebuddy]

I had a look in different places and people are of the opinion better to stick to Brompton, for resale value and that 3rd party companies often make products for them which is useful.

Who are these people? There are many here with folding e-bikes, but precious few (any?) with Bromptons.

There are many Brompton fanboys telling you everything you need to know about Bromptons on YouTube - Everyday Cycling has done some excellent content on both the standard and electric versions and every Brompton accessory imaginable, and 2Bikes4Adventure covers a lot of the technical aspects. Many of these fanboys strike me personally as somewhat blinkered though by the fact that other folding e-bikes even exist, and mostly for a lot lot less than £3000+.

Yes, the design is clever and iconic... and it folds smaller than most... but not by much, and it's not necessarily any lighter. It's also mostly non-standard, which may account for the many 3rd-party companies needing to make special kit, because the standard fittings most of us regular folk use on our folding e-bikes just aren't suited to fit a Brompton - panniers, racks, baskets etc. Then there's the fact that you need to specify handlebar style/type to fit you and gearing at the outset - and once you've made those choices you're kind of stuck with them: Even changing handlebar types often means you need to change gear and brake cables too. Most "ordinary" folding e-bikes use standard off-the shelf parts.

If you have that sort of disposable income to drop on a folding e-bike, or are prepared to make sacrifices to afford one because you really do want one, I wish you well! Many here though are happily commuting on ordinary folding e-bikes for much, much less.

Woosh (clicky here), swytch and others do conversion kits for standard Bromptons which may be an alternative to consider too?

 

[1lor]

So what other suggestions are there for folding ebikes?

 

[sjpt]

So what other suggestions are there for folding ebikes?

Depends on two important things.

1: How small do you need it to fold? For example, ss it for railway travel as hand luggage, or to tuck into the back of a large car?

2: How do you want to ride it? How much off-road? What sort of speeds? What sort of terrain? What range do you need?

A couple that are generally well recommended at a much lower price level

The Rambletta | Powerful Foldable Electric Bikes with 10.4AH semi-hidden battery from Woosh

The Woosh Rambletta is the most recent 20kg folding bike from Woosh, with a large 36V * 10.4AH semi-hidden battery, very easy to stowaway, perfect for camping / caravanning.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Wisper 806 Folding Electric Bike | Which? Best Buy Recommended

Our Wisper 806 folding electric bike is perfect for avid campers, caravanners and boating enthusiasts. 0% Finance Available. Shop your folding e-bike now!

wisperbikes.com

 

[cyclebuddy]

There are literally 100's of credible folding e-bikes available - 95% of them cost less than a Brompton electric. The best for you will largely depend upon your height, your weight, what your commute consists of (train, bus, tube, tram etc), wether you need to carry it up stairs frequently (weight), the terrain you need to cover (roads, cyclepaths, tracks) what other purpose you might want to use the bike for (shopping, leisure), and what you'd ideally like to spend.

It also depends on how handy you are with spanners and electrics for doing your own adjustments, maintenance and/or repairs - which all e-bikes will need from time to time, however expensive it may have initailly been... or if you have no practical skills at all and will need to rely on a dealer.

You can buy a basic but reliable folding e-bike (IMHO) from as little as £600 upwards. The one I'm thinking of has a folded size not quite as small as a Brompton (it has larger 20" wheels so it's more comfortable over potholed roads but still fits under a train table), it weighs only 1.5kg more than a M6L to lift (18.5kg), but that's mostly because it has a 25% bigger battery so will cover more distance. And at £600 it's ££2,600 cheaper than a M6L.

There's an awful lot in-between cost and quality wise. My own mixed-mode commute involves 1mile cycle, 25min train, stairs up, tube across central London 15 mins (or cycle 1.5miles), stairs up, 90mins train, 5mile cycle. My folding e-bike cost £800 plus £100 for (my choice) carbon fibre riser handlebar (ironically made for Bromptons - £20), leather grips £10, wide Wellgo alloy platform pedals £10, rear rack £15, 5-5 litre handlebar/seatpost/carry rack trunk bag £15, and Schwalbe Marathon puncture resistant tyres (as Brompton also fit - £15 each). My bike fits easily under train tables... and to carry it weighs exactly the same as a Brompton M6L (17kg).

(Post crosses with sjpt above).

 

[AndyBike]

fanboys

I/I'd avoid using that word. It implies people shouldn't have a like of a certain brand, in a negative ridicule sense.

Cheap bikes are a bad economy, they are afterall cheap for a reason, and it is the component parts that will let you down. I'm not arguing with you, only I feel we should stick to a standard and not accept whatever the cycling industry throws at us as being 'as good as', when clearly it aint.

I think we can all agree that over the past 3 years the Ebike revolution has exploded, and we have everyone jumping on the bandwagon.
Brompton were a brand long established before they stuck on a powered wheel and battery, and its been a testimony to the quality of their brand by the fact they are still going and have a fair share of the market.

 

[1lor]

I/I'd avoid using that word. It implies people shouldn't have a like of a certain brand, in a negative ridicule sense.

Cheap bikes are a bad economy, they are afterall cheap for a reason, and it is the component parts that will let you down. I'm not arguing with you, only I feel we should stick to a standard and not accept whatever the cycling industry throws at us as being 'as good as', when clearly it aint.

I think we can all agree that over the past 3 years the Ebike revolution has exploded, and we have everyone jumping on the bandwagon.
Brompton were a brand long established before they stuck on a powered wheel and battery, and its been a testimony to the quality of their brand by the fact they are still going and have a fair share of the market.

What do you mean by brompton have a powered wheel, are there others that work differently? (I don't know a lot about ebikes)

 

[1lor]

There are literally 100's of credible folding e-bikes available - 95% of them cost less than a Brompton electric. The best for you will largely depend upon your height, your weight, what your commute consists of (train, bus, tube, tram etc), wether you need to carry it up stairs frequently (weight), the terrain you need to cover (roads, cyclepaths, tracks) what other purpose you might want to use the bike for (shopping, leisure), and what you'd ideally like to spend.

It also depends on how handy you are with spanners and electrics for doing your own adjustments, maintenance and/or repairs - which all e-bikes will need from time to time, however expensive it may have initailly been... or if you have no practical skills at all and will need to rely on a dealer.

You can buy a basic but reliable folding e-bike (IMHO) from as little as £600 upwards. The one I'm thinking of has a folded size not quite as small as a Brompton (it has larger 20" wheels so it's more comfortable over potholed roads but still fits under a train table), it weighs only 1.5kg more than a M6L to lift (18.5kg), but that's mostly because it has a 25% bigger battery so will cover more distance. And at £600 it's ££2,600 cheaper than a M6L.

There's an awful lot in-between cost and quality wise. My own mixed-mode commute involves 1mile cycle, 25min train, stairs up, tube across central London 15 mins (or cycle 1.5miles), stairs up, 90mins train, 5mile cycle. My folding e-bike cost £800 plus £100 for (my choice) carbon fibre riser handlebar (ironically made for Bromptons - £20), leather grips £10, wide Wellgo alloy platform pedals £10, rear rack £15, 5-5 litre handlebar/seatpost/carry rack trunk bag £15, and Schwalbe Marathon puncture resistant tyres (as Brompton also fit - £15 each). My bike fits easily under train tables... and to carry it weighs exactly the same as a Brompton M6L (17kg).

(Post crosses with sjpt above).

I'm looking to use it for transport on/off busses and trains, some shopping too. Leisure is a bonus.

The smaller it folds the better and is versatile. I hear brompton is lightweight which is a another must for me. Absolute max I would use it in a day would be 30 miles but around 20 miles is my average distance.

AAny other suggestions?

 

[AndyBike]

What do you mean by brompton have a powered wheel, are there others that work differently? (I don't know a lot about ebikes)

3 types, well 2 actually.
Front wheel contains a motor, rear wheel contains a motor or mid drive, where the motor propels the chain, which in turn supplies the power to the back wheel.
The Brompton has a front wheel motor that pulls the bike along.

Personally I'm not a fan of wheel motors*, especially the rear.

*It's a lot of weight to place in one area and is prone to upsetting the balance of the bike, placing too much at the back that is traditionally, due to gearing,freehub etc the heavy end of the bike.
This will be exacerbated when panniers are fitted and its full of shopping.

Front wheel motors.
This appears to be the way of putting a bit of power, but I think(IMHO) its only suitable for rigid forks, as I believe the pulling forces act upon a suspension fork in the wrong manner

 

[Woosh]

Personally I'm not a fan of wheel motors*, especially the rear.

The Brompton can't have a middle motor because of the fold, can't have a rear motor because of hub gear. A front motor is the only practical solution.
As for the placement of the battery, you can attach the battery to the saddle or the stem or the front carrier block. The latter is best because it moves very little when you turn so does not affect your steering.
The good thing about the Brompton is you can carry it with one hand*, perfect for getting on/off trains. It also folds small enough to tuck under a desk.
This is a converted Brompton with 36V 13AH battery giving about 35 miles from a full charge:

* you lift it by the front of the saddle, it's well balanced there.
I am a fan of the Brompton!

 

[AndyBike]

I considered a Bromton at one point, but I'm a complete MTB tart it has to be capable for the road as well as hurtling down gnarly offroad tracks, and unfortunately to fill both uses you need a certain level of kit.

I dont really think the Ebike has found its feet yet, despite its long established use in the Continent.
Seems to be e-bike..E-Bike..E-BIKE Just banded out there as a title to pull in the punters. With companies forming left, right and center all plugging the description, rather than (Like yourselves) thinking about what is really needed in an Ebike for a specific purpose

 

[cyclebuddy]

I/I'd avoid using that word. It implies people shouldn't have a like of a certain brand, in a negative ridicule sense.

Not in my dictionary. It means they are obsessive to the point of being blinded to the alternatives.

Cheap bikes are a bad economy, they are afterall cheap for a reason, and it is the component parts that will let you down. I'm not arguing with you, only I feel we should stick to a standard and not accept whatever the cycling industry throws at us as being 'as good as', when clearly it aint.

Cheap e-bikes are sometimes cheap because they're not carrying and charging for a "premium" brand name - and nearly always they're not being made in Greenford London at £150+ per sq ft for floorspace plus central London wages and weighting, when they could be made in Milton Keynes (or Southend!) for a fraction of the overhead. It doesn't follow that a "cheap" e-bike is necessarily inferior, although, admittedly, with "cheap" ebikes you need to sort the wheat from the chaff. I too agree we should stick to at least some minimum standard - a standard that may not be at the cutting edge of engineering, design or technology, but one that is fit for purpose - i.e. the e-bike does its intended job competently and reliably. For many, that doesn't always need to be the absurdly expensive option.

I have no issue with Brompton. They fill a need in the market for which some are prepared to pay. Sometimes though, we don't need a Mercedes when a Ford will do the job quite adequately.

The smaller it folds the better and is versatile. I hear brompton is lightweight which is a another must for me. Absolute max I would use it in a day would be 30 miles but around 20 miles is my average distance.

The Brompton M6L is 17kg - exactly the same as my £800 folding commuter e-bike. I don't know, but I doubt you'll find a crank-driven bike at a similar weight so you're likely stuck with a "powered wheel" front or rear hub. The Brompton battery is IIRC 300Wh - you might be pushed getting 30 miles out of that.

 

[Warwick2]

Anyone who says the Brompton doesn't fold much smaller than average is talking out of what they place upon their saddle. I've had Dahons, Birdys, and Mezzos and the Brompton is much, much smaller than all of them when folded, by a considerable margin. It's also a fold that conceals the mucky bits and hasn't got too many sharp edges and stays folded when handled. Looking at the ebike folders available, they seem even larger than the bulky Mezzo.

I've got a Brompton M3L that I've fitted a Woosh kit to that cost me about £1500 combined. The Woosh kit is good, though flawed in one irritating way that they should really iron out (see my post in the kit review board). I'm pleased with the conversion and know that if I were to take off the kit some time down the line, I'll be able to flog the bike for pretty much what I paid for it.

Most importantly for me is that it will fit in my car's small boot; something other folders would struggle to do.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Anyone who says the Brompton doesn't fold much smaller than average is talking out of what they place upon their saddle.

Who said that? The point I'd make is that many other folders fold small enough to fit where they need to.

 

[1lor]

So can anyone here recommend alternatives to brompton

 

[guerney]

So can anyone here recommend alternatives to brompton

 

[1lor]

I don't think you understand I'm looking for a folding ebike I do not have one, converter kits are no good to me. I'm female by the way.

 

[guerney]

I don't think you understand I'm looking for a folding ebike I do not have one, converter kits are no good to me. I'm female by the way.

This lady built her own wooden ebike:

Just Finished building my Wooden ebike!

Quite a long time ago now, I posted a thread asking for some advice on a wooden bike build I was planning. See this thread here: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/ebike-motor-kit-for-a-wooden-bike.38862/#post-576505 I have now finished the project! See some pictures and videos below. I...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

New and second-hand folders are available all over the place, and the Bafang mid-drives are really easy to install... but you can't beat the compactness and relative light weight of the Bromptons for use on public transport (in my honest opinion). I'd get one, but I cannot abide twitchy 16 inch wheels... I hear one gets used to them. A lot of potholes are pretty large, and could pose 16 inch wheels more problems, than they would for a larger wheeled bike. Is there a shop locally which will allow you to try a Brompton out?

 

[1lor]

This lady built her own wooden ebike:

Just Finished building my Wooden ebike!

Quite a long time ago now, I posted a thread asking for some advice on a wooden bike build I was planning. See this thread here: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/ebike-motor-kit-for-a-wooden-bike.38862/#post-576505 I have now finished the project! See some pictures and videos below. I...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

New and second-hand folders are available all over the place, and the Bafang mid-drives are really easy to install... but you can't beat the compactness and relative light weight of the Bromptons for use on public transport (in my honest opinion). I'd get one, but I cannot abide twitchy 16 inch wheels... I hear one gets used to them. A lot of potholes are pretty large, and could pose 16 inch wheels more problems than a larger wheeled bike.

I don't want a second hand one, I need a new one. I dont drive so I can't just round to someone's house to look at theirs. Again, I'm looking to buy NEW folding ebike on the loan scheme not a converted one.

People above stated there are alternatives to Brompton (new) but I've yet to see any posted here, please can I have suggestions on what I ask for, otherwise I'll be getting a Brompton, I'm going to a bike shop on Saturday, so don't have much time!

 

[guerney]

I don't want a second hand one, I need a new one. I dont drive so I can't just round to someone's house to look at theirs. Again, I'm looking to buy NEW folding ebike on the loan scheme not a converted one.

People above stated there are alternatives to Brompton (new) but I've yet to see any posted here, please can I have suggestions on what I ask for, otherwise I'll be getting a Brompton next week!

Dahons and Terns fold down somewhat larger, so does every other 20 inch wheeled folding bike - too large for convenience on buses and trains; most will not fit into a train luggage space. Brompton's weird 16 inch wheels can take some getting used to - it's the only fly in the proverbial ointment when considering the Bromptons, which I why I suggested trying one out. Don't Brompton run a rental scheme of some sort? Report back here if you buy one? I'm sure others would find your experience useful.