50 cycles 2010 bikes

[overlander]

Why are the 2010 models still so expensive, they are only a couple of hundred pounds off the new model? I like the 2010 Connect Alfine but there is no way i would pay £1750 for what will be a 2 year old bike, especially with the new impulse system coming out. I still do like it but not at that price.

 

[flecc]

I can't speak of that price of course, but the same Panasonic powered models are going to leap in price for 2012, due to a large increase in the unit's price by Panasonic.

N.B. Crossed with 50cycles post
.

 

[overlander]

Hi Scott,
Will the 18A/hr battery still be available to buy in future when the 10A/hr runs out?

 

[Tim]

Yes, definitely.

 

[eddieo]

Hi Scott,
Will the 18A/hr battery still be available to buy in future when the 10A/hr runs out?

you can buy the 18Ah battery direct from German ebay for approx £500

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[Biged]

Why do they leap in price so much?

In 2008 the Agattu was £1250 Test Bench: Electric bikes - Times Online
In 2010 the Agattu was £1650 a rise of 32%. It gained 1 gear with the nexus 8 speed but lost the 2 tone paint job and the Abus rear lock.
The Agattu 8 speed is now only available in step through and at a cost of £1795, though it has gained the 18ah battery

It makes no sense to me?

Production costs can't have risen that steeply, it basically the same bike it ever was, just battery differences.
Most things, as the technology becomes available get cheaper, think TV's, phones even cars, bikes can be had for under £100, ebikes for £500... that's the cost of an Agattu replacement battery.

I know these are considered higher end products, but come on, how can these prices be justified?

 

[Tim]

Two things

First, the Sterling-Euro exchange rate

Second, component and raw material prices soared immediately before and in the wake of the credit crunch. For example, the price of rare earth metals.

Add increase shipping costs, a hike in VAT and massively increased demand for e-bikes across Europe, and every penny of those price increases is accounted for.

But over the same time other componentry has been upgraded and a 2011 Agattu is much more powerful (1:2.0 compared to the original 1:1.3 max assistance) and enjoyable to ride than its 2007 equivalent.

 

[eddieo]

The Panasonic drive is the expensive part....Have a look at Kalkhoff 2012 prices across the range...Impulse and Bosch powered bikes significantly cheaper

Kalkhoff : 2012

 

[Tim]

you can buy the 18Ah battery direct from German ebay for approx £500

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Hang on, €575 + shipping is more than the £525 we charge.
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[eddieo]

Hang on, €575 + shipping is more than the £525 we charge.
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Fine Tim! I have no idea on UK price or availability, and I just saw the battery while browsing earlier thats all!lol

when will the Bosch powered pro connects be available please?

 

[Spinalot]

I mean no disrespect to 50cycles, we all have to make a living, but this is a public forum so I ask the question, can Kalkhoffs be imported by ourselves from Germany cheaper?
I would check myself but I do not speak German.

 

[flecc]

I've no idea, but the UK Kalkhoff prices at introduction were the lowest in Europe and a year later when some members researched the prices of batteries for them, the result was the same, one country being equal to £100 per battery dearer than the UK.

For some unknown reason European customers for e-bikes seem to be far less price sensitive than us, the market in The Netherlands and Germany in particular dominated by the high end, high price e-bikes.

For example, nobody here buys the very expensive Swiss BikeTec Flyer e-bikes, but in Germany and the Netherlands they are commonplace

 

[eddieo]

You can check the retail prices online both here and abroad without speaking German, and I managed to order my bike via email and telephone without any problem......

But if you are after a Kalkhoff in particular I think Flecc is right and probably worth buying from 50cycles...I only imported as what I wanted was not available

support is essential with e bikes as all can be problematic irrespective of price

 

[tillson]

I can't speak of that price of course, but the same Panasonic powered models are going to leap in price for 2012, due to a large increase in the unit's price by Panasonic.

We currently have a climate where people's wages are being frozen and in many cases being reduced, where energy companies' corporate greed is erroding family budgets, pensions and future financial plans are under relentless attack and inflation is devaluing savings. With all of this set against a backdrop of future employment uncertainty, is this the best time for Panasonic to try and squeeze more money out of a product which is, by comparison to other manufacturer's products coming onto the market, old?

When all things are considered, most people are making less cash and are having to do a bit of belt tightening. These companies should be doing the same instead of passing their financial pain on to the customer. It about time they absorbed a bit themselves.

I can see Panasonic sales reducing as a result of this. I simply would not pay the amount of money being asked for some of these bikes. They are very good, but there is absolutely no way that they are worth the current high prices being asked for them. I can see no justification for the Pro Connect rising in price from the £1450 I paid for mine in 2008 to today's price. No one has been able to tell me how the extra cash (nearly twice as much in some cases) manifests itself in a better bike.

 

[flecc]

is this the best time for Panasonic to try and squeeze more money out of a product

I can see Panasonic sales reducing as a result of this.

This could be both the question and it's answer. This time the £/Yen exchange rates don't seem to be the reason, so it could be trying to get the same money out of the smaller sales that result from all the new competing crank drive units. I doubt if lower prices would increase their market share anyway, unless the price was slashed to a fraction of it's present level.

On the other hand, they could be just cashing in on the present e-bike boom in Europe, since Japan is desperate for more overseas income following the Tsunami disaster which will need many billions in any currency to recover from.

We are living in a seriously messed up world.

 

[Biged]

Well Tim has explained some of the rising cost i.e. the exchange rate, but the 32% rise from 2008 - 2010 is harder to justify.
We had no 18ah battery then and no 1:2 assist, VAT had not gone up and production cost had not risen appreciably. I know lithium costs have risen and so has availability and just to get slightly off subject (according to my brother who works with these things) neodymium magnets are going to be very hard to source and very expensive, these are apparently used in electric car motors?
There is just no hope to be 'green'
I really like the look of the new impulse bikes but there is no way i could run to the 2500-3000 euro price

 

[NRG]

Well Tim has explained some of the rising cost i.e. the exchange rate, but the 32% rise from 2008 - 2010 is harder to justify.
.........
I really like the look of the new impulse bikes but there is no way i could run to the 2500-3000 euro price

Yeah. Well there comes a point in any market especially here in western europe where people simply cannot afford these prices and with a small, niche contracting market compounded by the current economic climate, prices in this range are simply not sustainable. The market will find its level but its not at the 3000 euro one...

 

[Spinalot]

Some very good points from these last few posts. For me personally it "feels" like they are trying to milk a boom in desire for eBikes. But I could be wrong in that.
If the overall spec was better I could maybe see how they can justify it, its not like they are putting Dura-ace/RECORD/Ultegra/Deore XT group sets on. The components you get are low-middle end stuff. Only one I see bucking that trend has been the Storck bikes. Most seem to get away with Alivio at best (although the Alivio and Alfine hubs are pretty good).
This is why I have thought about building my own. I just lack the electrical expertise to attempt it. Thats why I am so fussy about what eBike to choose.
I do take on board what Flecc says about the UK market though. Seems from that, that we are not getting jacked compared to the rest of the EU. Just feels like it!

 

[eddieo]

The latest wisper SEL's have XT deraileurs and much more, and are easily within your budget, it is the hub bike I would get if I did not have weight restrictions because of our new camper.

In the links I posted earlier re Impulse I thought it was clear that it is a cheaper alternative to Panasonic? as bikes in Germany seem to be priced from around 2200 euro (approx £1900)

2012 prices here: Kalkhoff : 2012

 

[WALKERMAN]

Do the high prices mean that second hand values will be good?

I paid £1950 for my 2011 ProConnect Disc. I intend to give up cycling in Apr 2012. Will I be able to recover a large part of that outlay for the bike? If there is such a big demand maybe I should start a waiting list of potential buyers now!